Damian Dunn: [00:00:00] I can hardly believe it myself. I am here for it. You could potentially argue that I helped encourage it But here's where we are. We have people Contacting me to give peter dunn rucker extraordinaire Tips for his rucking practices. Let's bring pete and kristin into this conversation We have to make sure that pete is safe And doing this as well as possible because we can't do a show without him his name's on it So pete, are you interested?
In hearing the tips that have been submitted to me to further your rucking
Peter Dunn: career. I am. I am. In full disclosure, and I've not given up on rucking. I just haven't rocked this week, but I think it's important cause I don't want to be a poser, but I'll take the tips. Give me the tips.
Damian Dunn: Tips from former military members who know a thing or two about rucking and [00:01:00] don't accuse you of stolen valor at all.
But they
Peter Dunn: are. Can I get a time out? I was watching stolen valor videos two nights ago and I was grilling the guy that you sent me. Yeah. Kristen. Okay. Kristen. Let me set this up. Dame, you changed my life when you send me this guy. Okay. So this guy. Is a former Navy SEAL and he just sits at home, his computer and he's got his database and people will call him.
They'll be like a Panera. This is the one I was watching the day that one of his buddies sees a guy with some phony, whatever. And so the guy just calls him and then he's Hey, are you ready? And then, and the revealer guy goes to his computer and then they put them on speaker phone and they say to the fake guy, Hey, one of your, Your seal buddies wants to talk to you, which is apparently like a thing.
Cause I don't know. I'm, and then they start chatting and then the guy's no, you're you, what team were you on? And the guy's I was on a training, a buds [00:02:00] course and he's Oh, how old are you? And the guy's I'm 48. And he's so you went through buds when you were two, cause he has all this stuff.
And then he's You take that jacket off right now and you never wear it again. The guy's okay. Yes, sir the greatest thing ever like Why is this not a prime time show? It could be that's amazing Anyway back to your rucking tip.
Damian Dunn: Sorry rucking tip number one if you are going to stretch yourself and go on a longer ruck Put gallons of water in your rock so that you can not only stay hydrated, but you can drink as you come on the way back, you can drink it and lessen the weight in the rock to try and make it more achievable.
So you can go for further distance, stay hydrated, return all in one day,
Peter Dunn: There's another method that I think it's the same thing accomplished is it's bottle of whiskey. Yes, Kristen.
Kristen Ahlenius: Oh, that's not what I was going to say. I was going to say, but in Carmel in the rucking community, you can use like an Osprey backpack [00:03:00] and like a camelback within, you don't need to use a gallon of water.
Damian Dunn: And you just fill it with Evian. That's right. Does Evian sell gallons or do you have to buy a whole bunch of smaller bottles? Tip number two. Number two. I actually mentioned this one to Mrs. Advice and she was familiar with this one. So maybe this is something you already know, but if you start cramping.
Have a whole bunch of yellow mustard packets with you and just eat them straight and it will immediately stop cramping.
Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, because you're going to be vomiting.
Peter Dunn: I've heard that before and what, so first of all, there's two things that have become evident. A, I'm not going on long enough rocks.
That require me to lessen the weight via losing liquids. Number two, I haven't cramped yet. So am I'm really, I'm not going hard enough.
Kristen Ahlenius: Probably not. It doesn't sound like it. How long do you rock for?
Peter Dunn: This is where. About an hour usually, but it doesn't feel [00:04:00] like long enough,
Kristen Ahlenius: but see, that's where I'm, you should really be, your body should be taking in fuel probably after 40 minutes.
Peter Dunn: Yeah. Fuel deficit is definitely what I'm suffering from, are there any more tips, Dane? Cause those are solid ones.
Damian Dunn: That I've had submitted for me so far, but if you have more, ask Pete at askpete. com.
Peter Dunn: Kristen and I did a live. Thing on the Internet yesterday. Kristen, how'd that go?
Kristen Ahlenius: It wasn't the most technologically advanced show we've ever done. That's for sure. There were barking dogs. There were audio issues. There were video issues.
Peter Dunn: It was a nightmare, Dame. It was like anything that could go wrong went wrong. Correct. We handled it pretty well.
Peter Dunn (2): I do agree with that.
Peter Dunn: But jeez, it was frustrating.
Kristen did great. I was struggling, of course. Let's do a show. I got stuff to do. Sorry, Jeremiah. [00:05:00] Jeremiah's wife is sending me text or not text that got aggressive. Sorry, Jeremiah Sarah his wife, Sarah is sending me tweets about Jeremiah, whether he is rocking or not, because he's dragging the family's luggage around on a family vacation.
Oh, there's Jeremiah right there. I literally didn't see him pop up. And then I started talking about him. Hello, Rucker. Okay, let's start the show. Can we do your segment, Dame? Your little thing? A little meh? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. Hello, Caitlyn. You got a handsome guy in that picture with Caitlyn. Been there the whole time.
Kristen Ahlenius: Caitlyn has to run 10 miles in the hills of Brown County this weekend. Go, Caitlyn.
Peter Dunn: I can't tell from that picture. Does he have a good haircut? Is that what's going on there? Is that a little boobop at the top?
Kristen Ahlenius: I think that they've been maybe dancing at a wedding and maybe it's just like the aftermath of being high.
I don't think his hair usually sits like that.
Peter Dunn: Okay.
Kristen Ahlenius: In three,
Peter Dunn: two, [00:06:00] one this week on the Pete, the planner show, we answer your money questions. Here's how the show works. You email us at ask Pete at pizza planner. com that's asked Pete at Pete, the planner. com. And who knows what happens? Possibly we answer your question on the air with my.
Co hosts the sister of Caitlin Alenius, Kristen Alenius joins us now. Hello, Kristen. Hello, Pete. And Damien Dunn, no siblings. Hello, Dame. Hello, Pete. But he is my son. He's not, but people think he is. All right, Dame this week at an all team meeting here at your money line, you did a little financial education for the troops and you said, listen, People, I don't think you fully understand the difference between a 15 and 30 year mortgage when you get down to the math.
And you shed some light on that topic. And we said, you know what? I think the general public can hear this as well. Dan, what do we need to know about a 15 year mortgage?
Damian Dunn: It's better clearly. Okay. You want details? Okay. I'll give you [00:07:00] some details. I, you know what? Let's do this in the format of a pop quiz.
If you are driving, Please keep at least one hand on the steering wheel at all times. All right, what percentage of your very first mortgage payment goes directly to interest? That's
Peter Dunn: all
Damian Dunn: it covers.
Peter Dunn: Okay, so are you talking about on a 15 year mortgage? Yep, and a 30. And a 30. What percent? So we're given two answers, right?
Yep. Payment.
Damian Dunn: Number one payment. Number one. 30 year mortgage. What percentage of it is interest only? Kristen has a question already because of course she does. Kristen.
Kristen Ahlenius: Oh, I just want to score well on this quiz. How much money did I put down on this loan?
Peter Dunn: Dame? I don't have the heart to say it.
Kristen Ahlenius: What? It
Peter Dunn: doesn't matter.
Kristen Ahlenius: No. For a percentage. It does matter.
Peter Dunn: No, because the loan is 100 percent of the loan. The loan is a hundred percent. Aren't you in the market [00:08:00] of buying a home right now? As I was
Damian Dunn: saying, your very first mortgage payment, 30 and 15 years goes directly to interest, not principal,
Peter Dunn: regardless of your down payment.
I'm joined on the show by certified financial planner, Kristen Alanias.
Kristen Ahlenius: You'll have my resignation by the end of the day.
Peter Dunn: Oh my gosh. All right. It's all right. Hey, it's been a long week. All right, Dame. I happen to know the answer to this, but illuminate us with the
Damian Dunn: year. 79. 3 percent of your very first mortgage payment is interest only.
That's it. 15 year, 54. 5%. That's significantly different than my book. Peter?
Peter Dunn: Yeah, here's the thing. When you've got a very long amortized loan, The early payments just crush you with interest. You've got so much interest to have to pay. And that's one of [00:09:00] the primary differences between a 30 is the fact that it's amortized over a shorter period of time.
Therefore you're just not paying as much interest.
Damian Dunn: Correct. If the next question, which I put in as a trick question at the all hands meeting, was it what month or year does a 30 year mortgage payment equal 54. 5 percent interest that we have in the very first payment of a 15 year mortgage?
Wink, wink nod, hint, hint. 15 years. You have to pay 15 years worth of payments before your mortgage payment equals The first month payment, the 15 year in
Peter Dunn: terms of percentage of interest. That is a trick question, right? Because I, when you asked in the LT media, I was overthinking it, but it's an obvious trick question.
And I think what's important to point out here as we're going through this is the loan amount does not matter. The interest rate does not matter. This is 360 payments versus 180 payments. That's it. That's all we're talking about here. Those are the only variables.
Damian Dunn: If the [00:10:00] average length of a home ownership in the U.
S. is 8 years, median is 13, average home ownership 8 years before you move on to that next TP, what percent of equity ownership would you have in your home if you sell at that time? Assume a 20 percent down payment, Kristen, 20 percent down payment,
Kristen Ahlenius (2): after 8
Damian Dunn: years of payments, how much Equity ownership would you have in your house on a 30 year mortgage?
Kristen, I know you're already looking at this, so I'm not going to ask you to answer 27. 7%. You put down 20 percent yourself. You only gain 7. 7 percent ownership over the first eight years.
Peter Dunn: So that's interesting to me because there's other, you're going to disclaim this. I know you will. This is saying that the home doesn't grow in value.
Correct? Absolutely. Because if the home were to grow in value, that is a variable that we just can't speak to. And also you know how some, this doesn't happen as much as it used to because of the way housing prices [00:11:00] are. But Dame, when you and I were young and still adults, people would move into a place for two, three, four years and then move again.
Like it was just crazy common and you'd buy a house and you go buy another house and you go buy another house. It was like very common. And the challenge was if you had a 30 year mortgage, you're basically renting. Because of all the interest that you're paying and housing prices weren't flying up, they were rather stale.
And so with your example there, it's if you pick the wrong mortgage and you're going to be there for two to four years, you're in trouble.
Damian Dunn: Completely. That's why we always talk about, can you envision yourself in this house for a certain period of time before you're going to sell it and move on to the next spot?
15 year mortgage, by the way, after eight years, you'll have 51. 6 percent ownership of that house at that point in time. Again, significant difference.
Peter Dunn: real quick used to work a lot with the finances of people in the military. And Andy mentions on our live stream here, [00:12:00] a lot of folks in the military do just that, that they, they explain how that works and why that's the case.
Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, that's the case because of the way government housing allowances are generally set up for the military community, but also depending on the, There's a lot of different factors that go into this, but military families are moving every two to three years. And so if housing is in really high demand they're what's called their duty station they might find that, hey, buying a house is actually seemingly the easier thing here.
And to Andy's point, I feel that we've seen a lot of this, especially since the 2008 timeframe, because It tends to work out for people. I have many friends who've bought houses every three years for the last 10, 15 years, and they're like, this is the best thing ever. And I'm like, because of when it's happening to you, you wouldn't have thought that, if this would've happened to you in the early two thousands,
Damian Dunn: dam, I [00:13:00] already know what you're saying.
You're gonna say, I can't afford a 15 year mortgage on the house that I am looking at. Totally get it. So in the case, if we use a $350,000 house. For our example, you'd have to find a 240, 000 house to get the equivalent monthly payment for a 15 year mortgage. So a 30 year mortgage on a 350, 000 house, you have to get a 240, 000 house for a 15 year mortgage to have the same monthly payment.
If you do that math, at eight years for the average home ownership, equity on a 15 year home. mortgage, you'd have 51. 6%. That's 123, 800, 123, 840 with a 48, 000 down payment of equity compared to 96, 950 of equity on a 30 year.
Peter Dunn: When you were going through this at our team meeting the other day, first of all, I love math on the radio.
It's literally like my favorite segment.[00:14:00]
When people hear what you just said, the natural inclination is to go, cool, yeah, but I want the 350, 000. 1, 000 house and then in that they're so dismissive of the idea of buy less house is immediately dismissed When in fact and not to be the old guy here, but I am the old guy here. Although dame's older I The right decisions to buy less house
Damian Dunn: Yeah, you're going to have, you're going to spend 20 grand less up front on the down payment and you're going to have roughly 30, 000 more in equity position eight years in.
Peter Dunn: You know why this is going at least another half segment? Because the whole reason Damon and I did this is because as Kristen's out looking for houses we wanted to see if we could rile her up at all. So we're going to come back after the break and see if our comments in the first segment.
have moved Kristen to get angry and yell at us in the second segment. That is what the show is about today. The show is the Pete, the planner show. I'm Pete, the planner, and we'll be back right after this. [00:15:00] Don't poke her right now. Save it. Save it. Change topic. Damn. A lot of people have been wondering.
In fact, I was at a networking breakfast yesterday and today's Friday. So that was Thursday. And I saw one of our listeners, a longtime friend and he came up to me and he said, Hey, I was just listening to you in the car. It's very weird to see you here. And I was like, I know I'm south of 96th Street and he said, Dame didn't really have a mouse in his barn, did he?
And I was like, no one knows. No one knows.
Damian Dunn: Cause there's no proof. What is so hard to believe that a mouse might be in a barn in northern Indiana in mid October? I am a little perplexed by this. Sure.
Kristen Ahlenius (2): It's a
Damian Dunn: shop.
Peter Dunn: What do you call it? What do you call it? That's a great question.
Damian Dunn: Barn most of the time.
Every once in a while I'll say it's a shop. Does it
Kristen Ahlenius (2): have a concrete floor?
Damian Dunn: Yeah.
Peter Dunn: Wait, is there? Okay, wait, now I'm not in the know. [00:16:00] What? In the world, is there a barns have concrete floors or do barns have dirt floors? Because I feel like a barn would not have a floor.
Kristen Ahlenius: Depends. Some people like to have concrete in a barn. I have recently learned this because it makes it easier. For cattle mostly.
We'll just leave it at that. Dang. But Dam Dames is a shop. It's got finished walls, a concrete floor, ,
Damian Dunn: it's finished floor. It's got OSB on the wall. It doesn't have anything other than OSB in it. It's got a what is OSB oriented strand board.
Kristen Ahlenius: You know what it is. If he
Damian Dunn: showed you a picture, yeah, you'd be able to see what it is.
Peter Dunn: By the way, last week's show of which I got reprimanded by Kristen's special friend for using his government name on the air.
You guys were talking about skid steers or whatever. And I thought I knew what it was. And then so later in the day, I had to Google what is a skid steer? I'm curious as to what you thought it was. [00:17:00] Do you guys want to know what I think it was? I don't even know how to describe this. Pull up a picture and show us.
All right. Hold on. I think this is what I, yes, this is what I thought it was.
Kristen Ahlenius: And to be clear, he wasn't mad about his government name. He was actually more mad that you didn't know what a salvage title.
Peter Dunn: Okay. Look, I'm an idiot guys. I thought it was this.
I thought it was a pallet jack.
Kristen Ahlenius: It has forks in his defense.
Peter Dunn: And so here's the thing. I used to use this at my dad's plumbing shop, but I didn't know the name of it. But you're steering, and
Kristen Ahlenius: And to be fair, it's like an appliance mover. Could we have moved a red box with that?
I'm really not going to fault you that hard for this one, to be
Peter Dunn: honest. But what I couldn't figure out is, yeah, you could move a red box with this, but you couldn't lift it into a truck bed. And that's where, okay, so this is all processing throughout the day. And that's why I ended up [00:18:00] Googling skid steer.
And then I was like, Oh, it's like a little, it's like a cute backhoe.
Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah.
Peter Dunn: No? You backhoe. What? That's what
Peter Dunn (2): it looks like, a little bobcat. Meow. Yeah. Yep.
Damian Dunn: Sure.
Peter Dunn (2): That's
Kristen Ahlenius: funny.
Damian Dunn: Yeah, Kristen and I were lamenting earlier this week that we weren't feeling really good and we were trying to determine if it was allergies or
And I told Kristen, I said, we've got beans coming off all around us. I'm leaning towards allergies.
Kristen Ahlenius (2): His face is exactly what you thought.
Damian Dunn: And I said, that's not a sentence that people have no idea what we're talking about. We've got
Peter Dunn: beans coming off all around us. Those, that is, None of those words actually fit next to the others.
Like we have beans coming off all around us.
Kristen Ahlenius: I wouldn't have said that, but I knew what he meant is the problem. [00:19:00]
Peter Dunn: Okay. Give me a second here. We have beans coming off all around us. Let me get a chance here. Andy, it's complicated. I live in Indiana, Pete. I live. Okay. So soybeans being harvested.
Damian Dunn: Yes. Yield of soybeans being harvested.
Peter Dunn: Jeremiah said another way you could say is they're running beans. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. All right. I, here's the thing. My dentist who is my uncle, may he rest in peace. They had a farm. And so as a kid, I used to go in their barn and climb the hay and do all this sorts of stuff.
But I was in like kindergarten, first grade, and my farm knowledge stopped. I got stunted. With farm knowledge about then. And I, I've aged since then.
Damian Dunn: And now you live in the least Indiana place in Indiana.
Peter Dunn: That's interesting. That's actually, what's weird is part of me thinks Carmel would love that title.
I can [00:20:00] see it going on the gilded signs. And by the way, the gilded signs at the border of Carmel and Indianapolis, there are gilded signs. On the border of Carmel and Indianapolis. Kristen, your face indicates you did not know that.
Kristen Ahlenius: I don't know that I knew that.
Peter Dunn: Every border, you come into Carmel, it's a green sign trimmed in gold.
And
Kristen Ahlenius: It says Carmel.
Peter Dunn: It says, Welcome to Carmel. Oh, with Peter Dunn, barely Indiana, the least Indiana place in Indiana. There we are. I will. For those that aren't in on the joke, it is nice to live in Carmel, but I also know how ridiculous the the reputation, which is very well earned. And I am at the front of the line of people making fun of it.
Just so you know, I'm in on the joke. I realize how ridiculous it is. People are like, why don't you make fun of this community? It's because I don't live there. And I would be a jerk if I made fun of that community. [00:21:00] You can make fun of yourself. Alas, Let's rile Kristen up on the radio in three, two, one.
Back on the Pete, the planner show Dame, when you present someone with the idea that if you can't afford a 15 year mortgage then buy less house. They get frustrated. They dismissed that pretty early. Kristen, you're on the market for another home. How do you get your head around that?
Kristen Ahlenius: It's difficult because As someone who, despite the way I started the first segment, I do have a brain for personal finance and it's really hard to say that this makes financial sense, but then also understanding that the marketplace that we're in just like it, you guys, it doesn't support a household buying their first home that they want to stay in for at least eight years.
Getting a 15 year mortgage.
Damian Dunn: I feel like it's possible that you may have done some thought on [00:22:00] this and are coming to this discussion with some numbers.
Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, and I also think if we worked through them a little bit together, I have two numbers of reference, which are the median household income in Indiana and the median home price in Indiana.
And do you guys want to guess at either of those numbers? Oh,
Peter Dunn: we call this segment Pete's Out of Touch. Okay, let's
Kristen Ahlenius: do it. All
Peter Dunn: right. Can we at least have Dane guess first? Have Dane
Kristen Ahlenius: guess first so that your guesses don't seem so out of bounds. Let's go median home price.
Damian Dunn: Median, not average. Median.
Kristen Ahlenius: Median.
Damian Dunn: Okay. You said home price?
Kristen Ahlenius: Correct.
I even wrote it down.
Damian Dunn: 250.
Peter Dunn: I was gonna go 280.
Kristen Ahlenius: Hey, that's pretty good, you guys. 256.
Peter Dunn: Same wins.
Kristen Ahlenius: Wow.
Peter Dunn: Okay.
Kristen Ahlenius: And the median income?
Damian Dunn: Pete, you go first on this one. I'll let you go first. Unless you want me to.
Kristen Ahlenius: Household income?
Peter Dunn: Household.
[00:23:00] 68. 60.
Kristen Ahlenius: 67. Oh! You guys are not as happy. You know what? To be honest. That's pretty good.
Peter Dunn: Congratulations to me. Pete the planer, he knows stuff. You know what's weird? I don't think I've heard you call me that and I don't like it. That's
Kristen Ahlenius (2): your name!
Peter Dunn: I don't know, sometimes it's weird.
Okay, what's your point, Chris?
Kristen Ahlenius: My point is, how does that math, gentlemen?
Peter Dunn: Are you saying, what are you saying? How does it matter? Is there, what's the rule of thumb of what your home value needs to be versus your income?
Kristen Ahlenius: Damien, do you happen to have a mortgage calculator or could you run math for me? Thank you. Because what I'm saying is, and I could be wrong about this, but how does a household income of 67, 000 support a 15 year mortgage?
Median, [00:24:00] I just don't think that math is gonna math.
Damian Dunn: It was 267 was the median 256 256 how much for the down payment kristen
Kristen Ahlenius: people aren't putting 20 percent down People aren't putting 20 percent down
Damian Dunn: Okay, so you want to go with the three percent fha. So what are we talking about?
Kristen Ahlenius: This person's aggressive
Damian Dunn: math on the radio
Peter Dunn: brought to you by texas
Damian Dunn: instruments
Peter Dunn: 250 what
Damian Dunn: do
Peter Dunn: you say
Damian Dunn: 250?
What? You
Kristen Ahlenius: 2. 56 and they saved 5%. 2.
Damian Dunn: 56.
Peter Dunn: As you're doing this, I do want to make a point here. We're talking about the 15 and 30 year mortgages for, at least as far as I'm concerned for this reason we're not saying everyone should do it. I'm not saying you're an idiot. If you get a 30 over 15, what I'm saying is if you're able.
To get a 15 instead of a 30, you're going to save so much money in interest. And it is a wise financial decision. Not everyone is able to make that financial decision. So you're not dumb or [00:25:00] misguided or poor or whatever, if you can't do it. It's just, if you can, you should strongly consider it. And it's a that Dame that comes back for more math.
Damian Dunn: Yeah. Kristen you've been in the market way more than Pete and I have. What's a reasonable 30 year rate right now?
Kristen Ahlenius: Six and a half. They've good credit.
Damian Dunn: Six and a half percent mortgaging 243, 000 on a 30 year mortgage is 1500. 35.
Kristen Ahlenius: You guys, that's 25 percent of their gross income on a 30 year.
Okay. We wouldn't recommend them buy the house, period. Much less try to stretch to the 15 year.
Peter Dunn: This might take us down a really dumb path, but what percentage of a population should be able to afford a home?
Kristen Ahlenius: Everyone should be able to there's a distinction with the difference. They're a home versus housing, but whether people should or shouldn't does not take away from the [00:26:00] fact that people are going to try to, and Pete, we have this conversation all the time about, like, where people are headed and.
There's this like collective belief in the personal finance community that like people are going to have to be more reasonable. Like they're going to have to stop doing this or that. No, we are so far past that. Like that's not going to happen. You have to show people just the consequences of the decisions that they make.
And I don't, I think people are still going to keep buying houses. I, even if we would say, okay, you can't objectively afford this. And we're talking about the median household in Indiana. Can't. Afford a 30 year mortgage right now.
Damian Dunn: I will say that the average rent, according to Google in Indiana is 1, 190 to 1, 417.
Peter Dunn: Yeah. And just for a bit of clarification, when I said how, what percentage of a population should be able to afford to buy a home is what I meant. I mean that not in a, at some point in time, there was a percentage [00:27:00] that answers that question that everyone was somehow comfortable with. I don't know when it was, what was the heyday of housing affordability?
I don't know. But at some point in time, there was an answer. Lenders said you had to have this sort of credit score, this sort of financial profile. So there was a stasis. There was this moment in which whatever percentage that was, people collectively agreed with it other than politicians who said, let's have more affordable housing.
And I don't mean that judgmentally, but now it's so far out of whack of who can actually afford to buy a home that whatever that percentage was in its ideal state has had to have come down significantly. Like I'm making a number up, let's say that 60 percent of working Americans at some point in time should have been.
able to buy a home, it's got to be 39 to 41 percent now. That is, is that at all making sense? Or am I just flapping my gums?
Damian Dunn: No I hear you. And I think in [00:28:00] case it hasn't been abundantly clear. Pete isn't saying this is okay. This isn't something necessarily that what we are saying is just the way it's going to have to be going forward.
And so we would love to have everybody have their own house if they could potentially afford it. That just isn't the situation, the scenario that we find ourselves in at the moment. So what you're saying Pete makes sense. And I do remember something hearing something very similar. To what you're saying, but I have no idea what the timing was on it.
Peter Dunn: What do you think actually solves, and this is not what we're talking about, but now it is. What do you think actually solves the housing affordability crisis in America? Do you think it's just building more homes? Because that can't be it because you get businesses buying up and turn them into rentals like that.
Is it somehow limiting that? What is it? Kristen has an idea.
Kristen Ahlenius (2): Are you really asking me? Because I have a quite politically charged.
Peter Dunn: Boy, do we want to do this? All right. So you've got a minute to poke the bear. Have at it.
Kristen Ahlenius: You have to stop letting hedge [00:29:00] funds buy single family homes in the United States.
That's politically charged? It is. Yes. Because nobody's talking about it. Nobody's talking about the fact that the rate, and I can't remember the year, the rate that we're going, how quickly we are going to price the majority of Americans out of ever being able to afford to buy a home. I just feel like maybe we're having this conversation or you don't feel like this is politically charged, but I don't think that collectively we realize what an issue this is.
Peter Dunn: It's taken us 15 years on this show to have an interesting discussion and now we're here
Wow, okay, so let's as everyone just Dame calm down.
Damian Dunn: Sorry
Peter Dunn: Let's take a break. Let's come back with this. This is interesting because I agree And I want to know what would have to be true To have this actually happen, and then we can be cynical and say, could this ever really happen? We'll do [00:30:00] all of that next right here on the anti hedge fund homebuyer workshop.
I'm Pete, the planner. You're right. I'm curious and I'm not splitting hairs and I'm not saying no, but I'm just curious why you were. I think that's politically charged. I'm just I'm because I want to understand it because I don't see the way
Kristen Ahlenius: I guess I don't mean like in a way that I think that we would disagree, but I think that quickly that conversation can turn political because then we get back into if this can't change, do you combat it by giving the every day or like the every man?
Money to be able to step into home ownership. I think it's where that conversation goes that gets political quickly.
Damian Dunn: Yes. The old solution of giving people more free money.
Peter Dunn: Okay. All so I just couldn't, I didn't get there fast enough. What you're saying and I think you just wanted to be respectful, but I think what I'm hearing you say, and I'm going to tread lightly, is you feel like fiscally liberal politicians [00:31:00] solution to this would be,
Damian Dunn: To give credit to the voice.
Yeah.
Kristen Ahlenius: Yes. I think that proposals from that side tend to be. based off of the symptoms and not the actual problem.
Peter Dunn: That's interesting. So the other side of it, we should have this conversation on the radio. Cause the other side of it to me, I'm thinking then you get into a regulatory environment, which right.
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. We're not going to solve this.
Kristen Ahlenius: No, there's,
Peter Dunn: I love it.
Kristen Ahlenius: I'm trying to find before we go back to I'm trying to look at investor stats. 18.
Damian Dunn: Lemme Sorry, go ahead Kristen. I thought you were gonna have
Kristen Ahlenius: 15% of homes in the first quarter of 2024. Were investor purchased and then there's, I wanna say it's like in Atlanta, maybe that like 40% of housing is owned [00:32:00] by not individuals.
Let me see.
Damian Dunn: It's similar to and Jeremiah might know something about this. Based off of his his show China coming in and buying farm ground in Indiana as well. And it's just going to end up wrecking that side as well. So there's going to be regulated in India. I might've passed a law on that.
Actually, I can't remember. Jeremiah, if I
Kristen Ahlenius (2): started on farmland protection.
Damian Dunn: Yeah. So I, there's issues there for sure, and I think, unfortunately, regulation is going to have to step in at some point to protect the interests of the citizens.
Peter Dunn: I think it'll be, for me, as we explore this, of, farmland getting purchased so you can build houses and then rent them out to people.
My concern always lies with, I won't be able to then run beans. Yeah.
Kristen Ahlenius: How are we going to cut beans if you can't afford it?
Peter Dunn: This is a fascinating conversation and it also makes me think of [00:33:00] Airbnb a little bit. Because add that to the list. I have some hot takes on Airbnb, but I don't think they're radio show worthy.
Can I hit you with them now? Have we talked about this in the air recently? We're going to agree. Go ahead. I doubt it because I'm an idiot. Okay. Okay, I don't get it. I have no desire to stay and Dame you stay in Airbnbs all the time.
Damian Dunn: I love Airbnbs. Do
Peter Dunn: you really?
Damian Dunn: No, I hate them.
Peter Dunn: Wait, you stay there all the time.
No, I don't. You did in Indy once, so that's all the time.
Damian Dunn: Okay, for certain swim weekends, we have stayed in, Air BnBs.
Peter Dunn: Like people love it. I don't get it. I just don't get it. I like, I do not want to stay and it's under this really, let's get weird. Let's get weird. So I'm like, you know what? Here's the thing.
I'm going to be at an Airbnb and someone's going to have a camera recording my every move. [00:34:00] I'm going to be, it's going to be in the bathroom, right? Or wherever. And then I start thinking about that. Then I go, no they won't. And then I get mad that no one would put a camera in there and want to see me in various states of undress.
And then I just get confused. Do you know what I mean? You
Kristen Ahlenius: and I don't have the same take. No,
Peter Dunn: I just I don't, I like a hotel. I like it. A ho I like a hotel. I know it's dirty. I don't care. I'm comfortable with that dirt. I don't like the personal nature of sleeping on someone's sheets. I don't, it's so weird to me.
Kristen Ahlenius (2): In
Peter Dunn: my mind, it's different. Cause they got really hot washing
Damian Dunn: machines.
Kristen Ahlenius (2): That's fair.
Damian Dunn: You think? It's just the bed bugs. Maybe they're trying to save money and they don't use hot water as much as they used to.
Peter Dunn: And the other thing it's like you're in someone's kitchen and you're like, ah, we brought our own breakfast cereal and then you were using their spoon for your cookie [00:35:00] crisps and that feels unnecessarily intimate to use another person's spoon for cookie crisps.
Damian Dunn: To be fair, the places that we've stayed in, now that I'm thinking about this, I'm pretty sure are just dedicated Airbnbs. They're not somebody's house that they just vacate for a few days while you decide to come into town. So it's like a hotel.
Peter Dunn: Yeah. Anyway. We should probably keep going. In three, two, one.
Back on the Pete the Planner show. We're solving None of the world's problems today. As we talk through what, game, how do we get here? What percentage of Americans theoretically should be able to pursue home ownership? And then we got into what is making housing so unaffordable. Then we got to hedge funds, buying up all property and renting it out and driving prices up.
And then we got had a really spicy between segment debate. But Kristen, here's where we are. You [00:36:00] said, and I think we all agree with you. It's investors buying up properties, which is, skewing the market and then making rental prices higher at the same time. Do you think regulation is possible where a individual?
Versus all of these LLCs and things are the only people who can buy homes like that doesn't seem possible to me.
Kristen Ahlenius: No, it doesn't seem possible. And I also understand that it's not, that's not really fair either. Because how do you're not going to be able to regulate it. I'm not saying that I have a great solution.
But what I do know is that it makes it more difficult for someone to buy their first home when there are people who own several homes. Okay.
Damian Dunn: I think the two of you wildly underestimate our government's ability to regulate.
Peter Dunn: Yeah, I hear you. And again, this is, this just show just keeps getting weird, weirder today, but like the argument against regulation, right?
The argument and the argument for [00:37:00] deregulation is that the markets will regulate themselves. Like that that it in the sense that water will find its level, right? Like that everything will work out if, as long as there's no, no rules. I think it's getting tougher to make the argument in terms of housing affordability that deregulation is a sustainable strategy.
Like it just it feels pretty problematic to me.
Damian Dunn: Yeah. And I'm in general, somebody who's not a big fan of regulation or government intervention in just about anything. And
Peter Dunn: tell us more.
Damian Dunn: It's a big surprise. I know it's a big reveal. We probably should have had a sounder before I had that.
But in this particular case, I don't see too many downsides to limiting the ability of big corporations or hedge funds coming in and buying or even creating housing additions from an empty field. To Primarily [00:38:00] just build rentals at that point. I just I don't think that's a good use of Resources that are available for the everyday citizen probably a great return for the hedge funds, but in this particular case, they can figure out another way to make money
Peter Dunn: Kristen I We're treading on a topic that I feel like we're all on the periphery of and we don't have a ton of expertise in which Is what makes good radio?
By the way, that is always the case on radio. It's just how good are people tricking you into thinking they really do understand it. What do you think the impact is of domestic investment companies doing this versus foreign investment entities doing this? I feel like sometimes The foreign entities are demonized out of some jangoism or something, right?
There's some element of it there, but Dame, I don't know. Help me understand. Wealth is being built, but then the wealth is being offshored. Is that the issue? [00:39:00]
Kristen Ahlenius: Isn't it just a function of the enemy, it's just easier to say I can't believe that whatever foreign nation is like coming in and buying U.
S. soil is like fundamentally is the problem. What happens to the everyman? Is it the same as having a U. S. company come in and build a bunch of rentals?
Peter Dunn: That's my point. That's what I, yeah, I'm going, okay if the problem is the housing affordability. Is this a national security issue? I think people try to make, I don't, it doesn't feel that way to me.
It just feels like the market's getting knocked out of whack. I don't know.
Damian Dunn: And I have no idea. I'm just pure speculation at this point. Perfect. And a guess. Say more. Is there any obligation for Foreign countries who own fields and grow crops to sell them into a U. S. market or could they just Come overseas for their own potential needs, potentially keeping American families away from food products that they need [00:40:00] That
Peter Dunn: just took a
Damian Dunn: dark turn.
Peter Dunn: No one's running beans now. They are. They're just not staying here.
Kristen Ahlenius: How long is he going to use this phrase?
Damian Dunn: You guys, you teach me farming terms. I'm going to, I'm going to work with you for a while. The whole time he's driving a skid steer up and down his cul de sac. I don't live on a cul de sac.
Peter Dunn: I live in a courtyard. So we've solved nothing, which I think is great. It's really the hallmark of this show. Maybe we'll go here. Dame, I have noticed, and if you go back to 2005, 6, and 7, that when there are particular trends in the economy collateralized mortgage obligations, and these sorts of things, they accelerate in use until something really breaks.
So that is to say hedge funds, investment groups buying large swaths of land and creating rentals or buying the farmland. That is an increasingly common thing with interest rates coming back down. More [00:41:00] leverage will be used. It'll happen again. Are we somehow accelerating? To another bubble because of that, until something breaks within that system.
Damian Dunn: Potentially. I've said for probably close to a couple of decades at this point that the swings and the volatility that we're going to see in various markets in our country are only going to accelerate and be bigger. Than what we've been used to in the past because of whether that's the availability of information, whether that's capital that's available, whether that's some strategery that's being played behind the scenes.
It all just is going to work in this direction and it's gonna be a wild ride for the average investor from here on out.
Peter Dunn: Kristen, you excited to be on the housing market? Not even a
Kristen Ahlenius: little bit, guys.
Peter Dunn: Did we just ruin your day?
Kristen Ahlenius: No it's something that I've been looking in earnest for the next place for over a year, and [00:42:00] it's every day.
Peter Dunn: Have you noticed in the last 12 months I don't even know how you would measure this, but the base level of a home, some 12 months later, would that same home be the same? Any more expensive than it was then? Or is it just demands different than that?
Kristen Ahlenius: Speaking of regulation in the particular county that I'm looking to buy a home.
No, because in my opinion of local regulation of ground protection,
Peter Dunn: I know. I live with this feeling every single day. But in this moment, I realize how little I know about anything. What is ground regulation?
Kristen Ahlenius: In the county that I'm hoping to buy a house there is, I believe, what's called the Farmland Protection Act which sounds really great on the surface, like protecting farm ground from being developed to be able to ensure that the next generation can continue to do this, the county can continue to do this.
But as a result, it really [00:43:00] drives up the price for a single family home that sits on anywhere between one and 20 acres.
Peter Dunn: Who knew? All right. So Dame, here's how we started here today. We started with, if you 15 year mortgage, You're going to pay substantially less interest, but there's a couple other elements of letting the 15 year mortgage guide the value of home you're pursuing. And you mentioned it this week here at work, it was, you're going to end up paying less than property tax because the value of your property is not as much, you're going to pay less in insurance costs.
You're going to pay less in utility costs and theoretically less in maintenance and upkeep. If the size is commiserate with that,
Damian Dunn: less down payment as well. So you'll have more money in your pocket from the start and you'll be in a better equity position at every step of the way. [00:44:00]
Peter Dunn: So yeah, I'm, it's a really interesting idea here, Kristen, that as the housing market gets less affordable and spins more out of control, somehow, some way, Dame and I came up with the idea that the solution is to.
Settle for less
Kristen Ahlenius (2): loved it
Peter Dunn: perfect Solved this show is called the solvers coming up after the break The biggest waste of money of the week. If you had to subscribe to this show and pay money It would be that i'm pete the planner
It is a big scary problem Then I'm almost intimidated to really think about and put time into because I think it's a ugly of an outcome. I don't have a lot of dystopian thoughts but if I was going to pursue any path of dystopia, it would be this, it would be that housing will become so overwhelmed with corporate ownership that it's going to be unattainable for the average person.
Damian Dunn: Yes. Yeah. [00:45:00] And you'll have to basically inherit your house from your parents.
Kristen Ahlenius: And hope that they didn't reverse mortgage it along the way.
Peter Dunn: Oh, jeez. Why are you just salting wounds? Dame, how did I get to a dystopian place today? Welcome. Oh, we have our quarterly board meeting on Monday here at the old headquarters.
And maybe it's just my preparation for that. Really. Let's see. Jeremiah says in March, Governor Holcomb, the governor of Indiana, signed the bill blocking out Chinese and Russian ownership of Indiana farmland. Hey, we were talking about this before the show. I'm curious listeners in the live stream, if I got a notable politician to be on the show to talk about their personal finances, Would that be of interest to you?
I find it interesting, but I'm, I don't know. I'm weird. Yeah.
Kristen Ahlenius: A clarifying question. I think the answer is definitely yes, but assuming they're actually gonna not be [00:46:00] politiciany about it. Like I want to actually know some stuff, man.
Peter Dunn: Yeah, I think I can get it out of them.
Kristen Ahlenius: Okay.
Peter Dunn: I've accounted for that in the math here.
I think I can, I think I can do it in an approachable way. And I think it's about not talking numbers. I think you can learn a lot about a person's finance person's personal finances without using a single number. And if you do use numbers, use percentages. It is. And you can still get a lot done.
Here's the question I want to know. And here's why this came up. I was driving from that networking event downtown yesterday. I was driving up Meridian and they drove by the governor's mansion. And I thought, governor Holcomb moved in there. However, many years ago, he's moving out in the next couple of months for the new governor to move in.
How's that all work? Did he keep his house that he lived in or did he sell it? Or, and then does he clearly doesn't, I don't think have to pay rent to live in the governor's mansion. I wouldn't think but then you just keep paying his mortgage, but his [00:47:00] salary was probably less than it was in his other job.
I just want to know how all that works. Who owns the mansion? Dang China, soybean industry.
Damian Dunn: It's a be it's a beautiful mansion, beautiful property. It is. Anyway, I
Kristen Ahlenius: just think I need to talk to Jeremiah now. I
Damian Dunn: know, Jeremiah will send you a link. You can be a guest on his show,
Peter Dunn: Jeremiah.
Maybe we could do like a what, what do they call, like a crossover podcast where you and I interview. a politician about their finances. I feel like you'd agitate them though, with all due respect, Jeremiah. I feel I know, I know your sensibility around libertarianism, which I, agree with a lot of times, but I feel like you're going to be wired to really poke the bear there.
I can see it, like it's happening in the comments. Jeremy notes Tom. 20 year loan originator here. I'm with you. Most are not disciplined enough, but an option over the last couple of years to spread has been maybe 25 [00:48:00] percent earlier in the show, in the comments Oh man they're guys are just going back and forth.
I'm not read.
Kristen Ahlenius: Pete is not
Peter Dunn: interested at this time. Yeah. Did you see the size of that paragraph? Yeah. If you send me an email longer than four sentences,
Kristen Ahlenius: you sent us like three. A 50 sentence email this week. A
Peter Dunn: lot of bullets though. Kristen said that was passive aggressive. Because it was. It wasn't. Really? You thought it was passive aggressive? Okay, here's the thing. I'll, we can talk about it. A lot of people put stuff on my calendar because that's the nature of what happens around here.
And so it might be like, Oh, Pete, I promised someone you could speak in Las Vegas in November, or Pete, I told someone you're going to be in Florida in December. And it's whatever, fine. I don't care. But what happens is in the time that [00:49:00] someone commits to that, they don't put it on the calendar.
And so things get double booked. And so this just started happening more and more. And so I just sent out a Hey, here's a good process. And Kristen was like, Oh, that was passive aggressive. And I was like, I went to the person who was the last Malfeasance. And I said, Hey, I'm going to send this group email.
I don't want you to feel attacked because it's happening with everybody. Anyway, and now I'm talking about on the air, that's passive aggressive. No one cares.
Damian Dunn: Kristen shut her brain off.
Kristen Ahlenius: I still think the whole thing it's cause we disagree.
Damian Dunn: She's looking at houses.
Kristen Ahlenius: No, I got distracted cuz Candace sent me slides for a webinar.
I forgot I have to do
Peter Dunn: Oh, maybe if she put a hold on your calendar
Peter Dunn (2): She did
Peter Dunn: Kristen's sorry. I was distracted. I was leaving a glass door review.
Peter Dunn (2): All right
Peter Dunn: This is a fun place to live and work in three two I almost hit end stream, hold on. One wait, three, [00:50:00] two. This week's biggest waste of money of the week right here on the Pete the Planner show is, find a minute, everyone calm down. This Hermes, so black mat alligator Birkin bag. Kristen, you were reacting.
Kristen Ahlenius: I said, it's a Birkin. I knew.
Peter Dunn: Legend holds that when Hermes. Is Hermes? Hermes? Hermes. Chief executive Jean Louis Dumas was seated near French actress Jane Birkin on a plane. Can I get a timeout? Timeout. How is the name Jane Birkin a French name? Sounds like she's from Des Moines. Anyway, on a plane in the early eighties, her bag spilled and she mentioned a bag that was big enough to hold all her goods.
Thus, the Birkin bag was born. Increasingly sought after, even as the price rose, [00:51:00] it's become a fashion icon, this version. Was created with arches that echo the Mason's flagship store in Paris, crafted in bright orange leather on top of a mix of black, matte alligator, black madam and black sombrero leathers.
The interior is finishing black Chev leather with a slip pocket while the exterior has two rolled up handles, a flap top. A turn lock closure and a black PVD hardware. So the question is, this just went to auction and sold. How much does this purse costs?
Kristen Ahlenius: Okay. So the thing with Birkins is when their specialty, They either aren't as expensive or they're like over the moon expensive. So
Peter Dunn: game should guess first then because game's not going to have any idea what's happening here.
Damian Dunn: This should be like a 35 bag at [00:52:00] TJ Maxx. Nailed it. But. I do know enough to know these are stupid expensive and since it's unique, I'm going to go 50 grand.
Kristen Ahlenius: Oh, it's more than that. A regular Birkin's 40. So I'm going to say people actually liked this and it was a hundred and sixty thousand.
Peter Dunn: 206, 250. I liked it. The last bid. Do I have 206, 000? Yes. Do I have 206, 250? And someone's yes. Do I have 206, 500? And someone's no way. That last 250?
Are you kidding me? Not a chance day. What's in the news this week?
Damian Dunn: The days of crossing middle earth to end a gym membership are almost over the federal trade commission finalized a new rule this week that aims to make subscription based services as easy to [00:53:00] cancel as they are to sign up for the Rule called click to cancel cracks down on the subscription tricks and traps that take advantage of our free trial forgetfulness And impatience with lengthy customer service calls ftc Chair Linda Kahn said, under the rule, online memberships should take the same number of clicks to cancel as they do to initiate.
You need to be able to cancel via the same methods you use for sign up, but in person sign ups should also have remote cancellation options. And for free trials, companies need to be clearer about their auto renewal policies and can't start charging customers without quote, informed consent, which might just look like another box to check at signup.
These protections are going to kick in about six months, but looking ahead, the rule should make it easier for regulators to sue companies with slippery subscriptions like planet fitness and hello fresh, which are often mentioned in complaints filed with the FTC con and company are also pursuing subscription related lawsuits against Amazon and Adobe.
Peter Dunn: Hardest [00:54:00] subscription you've ever canceled game. Wall street journal.
Kristen Ahlenius: Oh, that's a good one.
Peter Dunn: Kristen
Kristen Ahlenius: planet fitness,
Peter Dunn: the indie star. And here's the thing I canceled it after they canceled my column. Stopped running my column. And I was like I don't need this dribble. And so I called and it's like a 45 minute process.
You can only do it on the phone or you could, when this happened. And the person's what's the reason for your cancellation? I said. Do you want the truth? They said, yeah. And I said, you can't handle the truth. I said, look, I'm a columnist in this paper and or was, and they're not running my column anymore.
And they're like, so what should I put here? I just told you the story. Just literally told you the story. Game. What else is in the news?
Damian Dunn: I will say the wall street journal has made their process a much easier. So the first time I went round and round about it, anyway,
Peter Dunn: How often do you cancel the wall street?
The fifth time
Damian Dunn: I've
Peter Dunn: canceled it.
Damian Dunn: [00:55:00] Annually for a while it was very frequently after the special ran out and then you'd cancel and then re-up and
Kristen Ahlenius: cancel mine all the time. Wait, you guys, are those people yeah. When the regular price is like $40 in the deal I have right now is four bucks a month.
Peter Dunn: You guys write a blog about life hacks.
Kristen Ahlenius: I'm
Kristen Ahlenius (2): not a Rockefeller .
Damian Dunn: The next time you find a plumber underneath your sink fixing a leak, there's a decent chance that person whose pants are losing the coverage battle might be a millionaire. Companies that specialize in home services like HVAC and electrical and plumbing companies are taking six and seven figure paydays from private equity investors who see meaty returns in trades according to the Wall Street Journal.
Nearly 800 of these skilled trade businesses have been purchased by PE investors since 2022 per pitch book and that's likely an undercount. Owners aren't all looking for a way out though. Ted Polk, Managing Director for the Boston Investments Boston based investment banking firm Capstone Partners told the Wall Street Journal that 9 out of 10 small business owners in the skilled trades field a decade [00:56:00] ago were looking to cash out and retire.
Today, only about a third of owners are taking the fat paycheck. But sticking on board to help the company grow. If you zoom out, this is the interesting part of the article. A recent study by the Harris Poll on behalf of the Intuit Credit Karma group revealed that 50 percent of Gen Z and 42 percent of Millennials plan to move into so called blue collar jobs like welding, plumbing, and electrical work.
As generative 66 percent of Americans believe trade jobs have more security than corporate ones.
Peter Dunn: That makes sense because there's a lot of foreign owned properties that need to be fixed.
Peter Dunn (3): There's
Peter Dunn: a callback to earlier in the show. Dave, this is not surprising. The trades being purchased by PE firms and like that is, That's been going on for a long time and it has escalated significantly.
But there's still some locally owned businesses. There really are.
Damian Dunn: Not only trade firms, but like other professional firms as well, whether that's dentist's office [00:57:00] or accounting firms. There's PE is just trying to get their hands in everything.
Peter Dunn: Kristen, if you notice the trend of the show today, these large financial overlords buying all the homes and businesses and.
What a dark show today.
Kristen Ahlenius: I know. And us, just regular people, we're just having a hard time,
Peter Dunn: I'm of the people. I run beans every fall. Autumnal beans. Chili doesn't count, Pete. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. What else is in the news, Dan?
Damian Dunn: Efforts to reverse the baby shortage aren't working. Falling birth rates have hit Europe harder and faster than expected.
Not even two not even two countries that devote more resources to families that almost any other nation can fix the situation. Okay, tell me if this might change your mind to have another kid, Pete. Hungry all lifetime income tax exemptions, subsidized minivans, and more than 150, 000 in cheap loans while Norway has generous parental leave and subsidized child care.
The reluctance to have kids is a fundamental cultural shift rather than a purely financial one, demographers say.
Peter Dunn: Yeah, [00:58:00] exactly. Like it, the yes, financially, they're a pain in the areas. But then there's living with them, which is also troublesome,
Damian Dunn: lifetime income tax exemption.
Peter Dunn: How much income tax?
How is this his lifetime income tax? I'm assuming all of it. Kristen, if there were financial incentives for you to have children, would it impact, would it move the needle at all?
Kristen Ahlenius: You guys, it's not, I think that what your generation and the generation before you has done is talk about how Hard it is to be parents and you've straight scared millennials and Gen Z, even if they can afford it out of ever wanting to be parents.
Damian Dunn: Lifetime income tax exemption and 200, 000 to put towards a house.
Kristen Ahlenius: I need a little more than that, I think. What
Damian Dunn: about
Kristen Ahlenius: expensive? That's barely even going to cover their travel sports.
Peter Dunn: So your take is that [00:59:00] the reason millennials and Gen Z don't want to be parents is because of Gen X complaining about how hard it is to be parents.
Kristen Ahlenius: Yes.
Peter Dunn: Wow, I had never considered that.
Kristen Ahlenius: Ask childless millennials and Gen Z. Ask them.
Damian Dunn: Maybe you just know how difficult you were as kids and you don't want to bring that on yourself.
Kristen Ahlenius: Ask my mom.
Peter Dunn: It's with that we'll take a 167 hour break. Thanks for listening. I'm sending you good vibes because good vibes are all that's in the budget.
I'm Pete the Planner and this is the Pete the Planner Show. You think that's the reason?
Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, I do. I think a lot of people that are on the fence that are my age are legitimately concerned about the fact that it seems like parents are not happy being parents. I
Damian Dunn: find it hard to believe because Parents aren't listened to in general, let alone on something about don't tell me not to do that, [01:00:00]
Kristen Ahlenius: but no, I'm saying, I don't know if we're talking about the same thing.
I'm saying that like people that I know that have Children have made the people that I know who don't have Children quite jaded. about the joys of parenting.
Peter Dunn: That's, this is interesting actually, right? Because I complain a lot about I'm driving to Salem, but the joys I'll speak for myself, Dame, you can, I know we're the same person, the joys far outweigh the challenges.
Like every, it's the old, it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. It's the same concept with children. But
Kristen Ahlenius: as an observer, that increasingly doesn't seem like the case. And right there, I'm speaking for myself, but I will tell you, I've had this conversation with lots of people who've decided to not have children who've actively made that decision to say, like, when I look at people who have children, it really [01:01:00] doesn't seem like they're having a good time.
And that's strictly observational.
Peter Dunn: And society dies. But I also don't feel like someone should be talked into having kids if they don't want them either. Correct. What's a little bribing between friends? Can I raise a, can I raise a point that, that may both be true and judgmental and arguably Aggressive do what part of this comes with the newer generation?
Being more self-involved from a social media perspective, and just like more self-indulgent about themselves. Like more damn. Am I saying that right? Do you know what I'm saying? I
Damian Dunn: think I understand what you're saying.
Peter Dunn: Oh, more. Yeah. More self centered than previous generations.
Kristen Ahlenius: I'll say it because it's about me and you.
That's why I'm allowed to say it. And I feel like you can't is that I feel like myself and lots of my friends. We are just more selfish. Do I [01:02:00] really want to give up this time for Another human being and the answer maybe is no, and I think people feel more open about like sharing that hey, raising another human might be a very selfless thing, and I'm not sure that I want to embark on that.
Peter Dunn: Yeah, the weird thing is, it's I see nothing wrong with that perspective, right? It's it's not oh, your guys are doing it wrong. I just think it's interesting that collectively it feels like an entire generation or two has moved that way, which that is interesting because individuals have always made that type of decision.
I know plenty of people my age who have chosen not to have children, and it's fine. No one cares. But when entire generations do it, it is peculiar.
Kristen Ahlenius: It's because it's a combination of things. It's also the increasing unaffordability combined with this
Peter Dunn (2): is
Kristen Ahlenius: this
Peter Dunn (2): really
Kristen Ahlenius: worth
Peter Dunn (2): it?
Peter Dunn: The good news is when Gen X dies housing will get a lot more affordable because there'll be a 75 people left on Earth.
True. True. [01:03:00]
Kristen Ahlenius (2): I'll finally be able to buy a house.
Peter Dunn: And we'll leave it with this. Andy said in the live stream, we had to give direct TV my grandpa's death certificate for them to cancel his service. All right. I think you win. That's so aggressive. That is so aggressive. Second long show in a week or two weeks in a row of long shows is what I mean.
I don't know. It's time to go. Hey, everybody, stay getting money.
