00:00
Peter Dunn
You. Well, hello everyone. And for those joining us on the live stream at 10:00 a.m. On Friday morning, the image you're seeing is my fashion magazine cover wearing the Puffin sweatshirt. Hello, everyone. It's Peter Dunn. Pete the Planner. The Pete the planner experience. Dame, I realized that Joe Rogan calls his show the Joe Rogan Experience. And I never intended when I said the Pete the Planner experience to try to imitate that. That's not my thing. It's got to be the.
00:38
Damian Dunn
I mean, because it's your show. Yes, I think we could potentially argue that Kristen and I are at least as popular, if not more popular than you in some circles, but we'll stick with it.
00:50
Peter Dunn
I don't know. Anyway, so I'm on a magazine cover and I don't think it's my first, if I'm being frank, but it is the first in which I'm wearing a Puffin sweatshirt. And it feels good. Yeah, it's interesting. So where can people get this? Do you know where? Pattern indy. Pattern as in like a pattern? Yeah, that's helpful. Patternindy.com. And you can see there's a pretty good article, actually. Pretty good article. So thanks to Pattern magazine and by the way, all the podcasters sorry, no idea. You can go to pattern indy too. You've got ears. Everyone settle down. Dame, there's a conspicuous absence on the show here today.
01:37
Damian Dunn
Yeah, it feels empty and I don't think I care for it.
01:42
Peter Dunn
Kristen is on vacation on staycation. And here's the thing. I am of the belief that she is going to be watching this somehow, some way, today, 100%. And I hope she's not. No offense. I like her very much. I just like we got to rest the brain. The brain?
02:03
Damian Dunn
You think it stretches her brain to be on this show?
02:08
Peter Dunn
Well, I think it takes a lot to filter me and that's a heavy lift. Dan's asking amazing questions. How are we doing the Kristen show without Kristen? It's just anko today. Yeah. And then Jason Brown notes. You should be apologizing to those on Facebook Live that have to see the picture, not the podcasters. Who can't see the picture? Very fair. My guy. So, Dame, lots to tackle this week. Weird week. We're without Tristan. Dynamic week here at your money line. Lots of fun, interesting things happening. But more than anything, this is an old school radio show, you and me, like it used to be. And before Kristen came in and made it. Is some there? I knew I was forgetting something. We have a new affiliate, see some people on the podcast maybe joined recently, which is no, like we got people falling off. No one's joining.
03:14
Peter Dunn
No one's. That ridiculous. We are an actual radio show. Some of you realize that. Some of you think it's a gag. I don't know what you think, but we have eight affiliates throughout Indiana and our latest is in Bloomington, Indiana. Wgclfm news talk. I don't know why I said it like that. And I also don't know what time the show airs, but it's on the weekend. I think this weekend is their first time joining us. But we've got other place. I mean, we're in both Lafayette and Bloomington. We are in Anderson and we are in Cocomo. We are in Michael and we are in Knox and Kendallville. We are everywhere. Dame.
03:55
Damian Dunn
We are covering a lot of major college cities, actually, at least within range of a lot of major colleges india.
04:01
Peter Dunn
Yeah. South Bend, Lafayette, West Lafayette. We'll just add the west fort Wayne. We're in Kindleville, where you get to IP. What is it called now?
04:12
Damian Dunn
PFW.
04:13
Peter Dunn
Yeah. Watching an NBA game last night, and there was a player on the grizzlies that played for IPFW.
04:23
Damian Dunn
Oh, if I had a minute, I'd think of his name, but he was, I think, the all time leading scorer at PFW.
04:30
Peter Dunn
That would track. Yeah. Boy, it's fun to talk IPFW sports here.
04:38
Damian Dunn
PFW. Get it right.
04:39
Peter Dunn
What am I calling it?
04:40
Damian Dunn
You said IPFW again.
04:42
Peter Dunn
What is it?
04:43
Damian Dunn
Just PFW.
04:45
Peter Dunn
There's?
04:45
Damian Dunn
No, I No I has left the building. I still has a few classes there, but P runs the campus now.
04:54
Peter Dunn
Yeah, I'm not who wants a rebrand? Kristen and Co, back with you. All right, Dame, three topics today. We've got I'm so intimidated with Kristen not here. I got to be honest.
05:08
Damian Dunn
I feel like we've lost our anchor and we have to play it a little bit tighter to the vest today.
05:13
Peter Dunn
Oh, my daughter's texting me. I don't know what she's got going on. Okay, Dame, so you and I took disk profile assessments this past week. How would you describe what it is, not what the result is?
05:28
Damian Dunn
From my perspective, you're going to be posed with there was, like, 28 questions to try and decide what word describes you best out of that group and what word doesn't describe you at all, potentially. And what we found out pete and I joke all the time that we are the same person, almost the same family. Almost the same family. And what we found out was enlightening. Would you agree, Peter?
05:58
Peter Dunn
We couldn't be any more different, actually, which great. I think that's what makes the show somewhat interesting. Sure. We're both 245 year old bald white guys with the last name of Don who live indiana, have two kids and a wife, but other than that, we're very different.
06:15
Damian Dunn
Yeah. In reality, it shouldn't have been all that surprising. I think it's more surprising that we align on so many things after seeing the results of that profile.
06:26
Peter Dunn
I'm basically a cult leader is what my profile suggests. That I'm like Jim Jones and I'm essentially a follower. Yeah, so go figure. By the way, that shipment of Kool Aid will be to you, actually, you shouldn't joke about that, probably. That seems on the nose. I apologize. Why am I joking? What's wrong with me?
06:45
Damian Dunn
It's Friday.
06:46
Peter Dunn
Something a cult leader would do.
06:47
Damian Dunn
Miguel three.
06:50
Peter Dunn
Oh, wait, that was bold. I was just like, you know what? My daughter's like, hey, can you bring something to school? And I'm like, I'm on the radio right now. And by radio, I mean whatever. Yeah. She turns 14 this weekend.
07:04
Damian Dunn
It was demanding.
07:06
Peter Dunn
Three years ago on her birthday party is when the NBA season was canceled and Tom Hanks had COVID. And that was like, to me, just such a distinctive moment in time.
07:15
Damian Dunn
Do you remember more about the birthday or the things that happened around the birthday?
07:21
Peter Dunn
I remember at the birthday party that my dad we ordered barbecue, and my dad's standing, like, picking on burn ins, just, like, putting in his mouth and putting his hands back at the barbecue. And I was like, hey, dad, we're in the midst of a global pandemic. Maybe don't rub your saliva all over, like, five pounds of meat. And here's the thing, everyone okay, that sounded harsh, what I just said. I said it much harsher. Yeah, I did. It was not my finest moment, and it was much worse, maybe I'll tell you what I actually said, and then everyone, all the adults shoot a look over to me, like, calm down. And I'm still scoreboarding at this point. I'm still like, oh, well, I mean, sure, none of us got infected by my dad's situation there. Yeah, well, okay. In three, two, one. This week on The Pete the Planner Show, we answer your money questions.
08:32
Peter Dunn
Here's how the show works. You email us. It's multimedia. Email us. Ask Pete. It's all one word. I mean, it's actually two words. Slap them together. Askpete@petetheplanner.com that's. Askpete@petethepeplanner.com. It's a financial show. And here's what happens. On the financial show. We don't try to sell you anything. We just have a good time. We answer your questions. It's fun. There's two other people on the show. One of them is not here today. So it's Damian Dunn, who's the vice president of advice at Your Money Line. Hello, Dame.
09:03
Damian Dunn
Good day, Pete.
09:04
Peter Dunn
And in Abstentia, I think it's a thing. Kristen Ahlenius is not here. She's on staycation. And welcome a new radio affiliate this week, Bloomington's WGCL News Talk. Welcome to the Pete the Planner extravaganza dame. We're glad to have them.
09:21
Damian Dunn
Absolutely. The more the merrier.
09:23
Peter Dunn
Now, we don't want to compare affiliates next to each other. It's like trying to pick a favorite kid. Mine's Ted. You shouldn't do that. Right. So I will note, as a financial show, we love being on WIO in Kokomo. We just love it.
09:39
Damian Dunn
Yeah. They have to ride with us until this show goes off the air.
09:43
Peter Dunn
Oh, it could be sooner than you think. All right, Dame, this week on the show, new rule. In Secure 2.0 that talks about 529 plans and our ability to roll them into Roth IRAs, which has me tickled. I actually read that news story, and I got excited about it. And then I stopped in a pause of like, what is wrong with me? Why do I care about this? Next, then we have a college student emailed us, I don't know, probably looking for TikTok recommendations or something. So we've got that. And then third segment, I'm going to talk about my Indianapolis Business Journal column around mortgage rates. And why would you move right now if you have a low interest rate mortgage? Dame? Let's start with Secure 2.0 briefly. This is where Kristen usually comes in handy because I'll say something like, kristen, tell us a little bit about Secure 2.0, and then she'll just rattle off all these things.
10:38
Peter Dunn
So I'm going to go to you for hopefully an adequate thing. What is secure 2.0? Can you do that?
10:44
Damian Dunn
Well, be prepared to be disappointed. Secure 2.0 was act enacted? That's great language use right there. Act enacted. That's great. Kristen, come back. Are you listening? Make comments in the show right now. A whole bunch of different laws and changes and parameters, but some of them stood out more than others. And one that we are going to talk about specifically, 529 rules. You've heard Pete and I talk about five twenty nine s a hundred times on this show and how much we enjoy and advocate for their use for college savings. But there are a few new wrinkles in this, and one that caught both of our eyes was the fact that they are now tied to Roth IRA accounts in a very significant way. Correct, Pete? Correct.
11:29
Peter Dunn
So let's pause and do this. Let's go back to financial planning from 15 years ago, where 529s are sort of coming into their own. Yes, actually, it's 2020. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that worked. All right. So what would happen? I was a financial planner at the time. Were you a financial planner in those days?
11:49
Damian Dunn
Not yet.
11:50
Peter Dunn
Okay, so I was, and I would go out and talk to people at their home, their kitchen table. Can I offer you a cup of coffee? Is it decaf? Anyway, we'd start going and we talk about college planning for their kids. And I would say, well, there's this thing called a 529 plan. It's like a Roth IRA. And then they would say, well, what if Timmy doesn't go to college? I'm like, well, what do you care? Your kid's name's Gary. And they're, ha. It's a good joke. Why don't we just use a Roth IRA? And I would always say, number one, I hear you, and that's a decent idea, but you really can't put enough money into a Roth IRA and annual basis to make it matter for this purpose. And the other thing is, I don't like the idea of commingling retirement and college money.
12:33
Peter Dunn
And so what Secure 2.0 has done is it says in beginning in 2024, the beneficiaries of 529 account will have the option to roll over up to $35,000 for the course of their lifetime to their Roth IRA dame. Something just hit me here. It's the beneficiaries get to move it to the Roth IRA, not the account owner. Yeah, that just hit me.
12:57
Damian Dunn
Okay, well, we just witnessed an epiphany live on radio, folks.
13:02
Peter Dunn
Well, now, I hate this.
13:03
Damian Dunn
I think oh, man, you're not going to make me change my argument now.
13:06
Peter Dunn
Well, no, I just like, why do they get the money? They didn't do anything. Okay.
13:13
Damian Dunn
All right. Well, this is going to be a very hand pat on shoulder segment now.
13:19
Peter Dunn
Okay. So let's just get some terms out of the way. There's the account owner, which is theoretically also called the custodian, correct?
13:28
Damian Dunn
Possibly.
13:29
Peter Dunn
Possibly. But I mean account owner, which in my case is me and Mrs. Planner, actually, just me. I think it has to be an individual. I don't think it could be joint. Correct. In your house? It's likely. What is it?
13:45
Damian Dunn
I think it's me, actually.
13:46
Peter Dunn
Really? Okay, so we got that. And then the beneficiary is the kid. Okay. So boy, I totally blew.
13:57
Damian Dunn
Now here's a wrinkle. Pete Beneficiaries can change.
14:05
Peter Dunn
Oh, wait, so I can change the benefit. The account has to have been open for 15 years. But what I could do is so let's say Ollie gets a scholarship in dressage that came from let's say she's in the horse game. She's a weird horse girl, but she's not. But let's say she got it. She got a scholarship. Their money's there. Ted doesn't need it because he's whatever. And so I could change the beneficiary to me and be like, I'm going to go back and get my high school diploma, and then I could roll it over into my own account. Does that work?
14:48
Damian Dunn
I'm trying to find out if there's a restriction on the number of years that a beneficiary has to be the named beneficiary for this to work. But even if it does, if it's five years, let it ride, right?
15:02
Peter Dunn
Look, this is where people may again call me a terrible person. Maybe I'll break off some money if my kids get scholarships, which I'm not going to, but let's say they did, I would give them a little bit of money and say, hey, look, we saved this for you. Great job. I'm not going to buy you a Jeep or anything like that, but here you go. We saved our butts off for this. But I don't know, I'm just not feeling like I'm just going to be like, oh, here's $150,000. Good job on the scholarship. Do you have a philosophy on this?
15:34
Damian Dunn
Well, it can't be $150,000 because it's limited to $35,000.
15:39
Peter Dunn
No, but I'm saying, like, their account could be $150,000. My intent is not to just give them what's in the account.
15:45
Damian Dunn
Absolutely.
15:45
Peter Dunn
Yeah.
15:45
Damian Dunn
No, see, my point was before, in your prior understanding, my point was going to be this presents some issues for the child long term because it sets them up to be incredibly stable long term and may not allow them to develop the good habits they need to save with their normal income from the job that they produce. So they would end up consuming all of that income and not having a desire or potentially even a real need to save on their own because it was done by their parents 1015 years ago.
16:23
Peter Dunn
Yeah, I guess it would be nice. Like, you start a kid's career with $35,000. Let's do some fun here. Okay, I'm just going back and forth today. I'm a flip flopper. Let's say you work for 40 years, and I'm going to put 35,000 in at the beginning of your career, and we will say within 40 years. I'm going to go ahead and say that's five doubling periods, your money. Okay. So math on the radio. Okay. 35 becomes 70 one doubling period. 70 becomes 140, then 280. This is where it gets a little tricky.
16:59
Damian Dunn
Yes.
16:59
Peter Dunn
Okay. And then the final one is, what, a million? 180 or 120.
17:07
Damian Dunn
Just over a million.
17:08
Peter Dunn
Okay. Over a million bucks. So by doing this, you guarantee what a financial show this is. You guarantee, which is not a thing or possible, that your kid is going to be a millionaire. When they're not a kid, they're a grandparent.
17:24
Damian Dunn
I also guarantee that they have high I won't guarantee it. Chances are high that they have worse financial habits if you do this.
17:33
Peter Dunn
I agree. All right, so I learned something on my own show today. That's good. And Kristen's not even here to tell us to us. Yes. Coming up after the break, we got an email from a college student who really shouldn't listen to us because we're out of touch. And we'll do that next right here on the Pete the Planner Show. I'm Pete the planner. Boy, oh, boy. Can I share some words with you?
17:54
Damian Dunn
Can we do it on the air?
17:56
Peter Dunn
Well, I'm going to go hypothetical here. Okay. What if I was on a television show this week that the piece was syndicated across dozens of network affiliates?
18:10
Damian Dunn
No.
18:12
Peter Dunn
And potentially in this hypothetical situation? No. My understanding of this law, on top of an additional media appearance that is yet to air on a podcast, suggest that the rollover goes to the account?
18:30
Damian Dunn
Mean, that would be embarrassing. Hypothetically.
18:33
Peter Dunn
Good Lord. Hey, Jeremiah is watching live. Jeremiah. Oh, it's good to be with you, Jeremiah. Last week on the show, I said, hey, I was in a hurry, and I sort of stopped apologizing to Jeremiah because I just didn't know if know really rode with us anymore. And he posted a video of him on Twitter literally riding, listening to us with his lovely wife in the car. So, Jeremiah, it's good to know that you've not given up on us yet. Dame. I'm not kidding. Here's what I'm going to do. Wonder if you could roll over 3005. It's only the beneficiary. If this is you, D, would you give the 35 to your kid, or would you take the well, if it's only 35, I'd probably give it to my kid.
19:19
Damian Dunn
I'd take it to myself. I don't know.
19:25
Peter Dunn
I have a lot saved for my kid. Right. Let's say it's 100. I'm not giving $100,000 to a 22 year old because they got a scholarship. I'm just not doing it.
19:32
Damian Dunn
No. Now, I mean, there are some rules inside of the 529 that you can get money back out to offset the scholarship, the value of the scholarship. And I think there's a little bit of taxation that's due on that, but the penalty is completely waived, if I remember correctly. And this is all subject to my horrible memory. So there are ways to get money out to offset scholarships in that case. So I think this really only applies if there's money left over in a 529 after somebody goes all the way through their college education, whether it's undergrad grad, whatever, and there's nothing left to do with it at that point, or they just perceive there's nothing left to do with it at that point.
20:13
Peter Dunn
Let's change lives. In three, two, one. Back on the Pete the Planner Show, answering your money questions. Askpete@petetheplanner.com that's. Askpete@petetheplanner.com. Askpeed@peteeplanner.com that's. Askpete@peteeplanner.com. Saying hello to our newest affiliate in Bloomington, Indiana. WGCL news talk. Thanks for riding with us. Dame. They are on the Am and the FM.
20:40
Damian Dunn
Wow.
20:41
Peter Dunn
So if you appreciate the old school crackle hit on the about I don't know enough about radio to know why that is or how that works, but nice to be with you. Bloomington anderson and Lafayette and Michaela and Kokomo and Indiana. Who cares? Okay, Dame, here we go. Got an email from a college student. Clearly, I'm in that demo. Hi, Pete, Dame and Kristen. I'm a junior in college and am frustrated. You know what I feel you. How am I supposed to invest and save as a full time student when all my income goes straight back into school for my expenses? I can't even afford to fix my unreliable car. I'm not opposed to working more, but my parents are very much against it. I feel like my hands are tied and I'm losing ground already. What do I do? Avery? All right, where do you begin on this?
21:41
Peter Dunn
Other than which is not a helpful comment, which I'm known for, this is normal. A college student is hard to get ahead. Yes. This person is very practical and very ambitious, but they're arguably asking the impossible of themselves. No.
22:04
Damian Dunn
The first thing I do is encourage Avery and tell her that she's going to be okay because her mindset's already trending in the right direction. She's already thinking long term. She wants to make sure she's taken care of and that she's doing the right stuff. But she's got limited resources right now, and she has to be. I mean, we talk about treadmill time periods of your life, and this is very much a treadmill you're trying to stay as close to, even as you can not go too far into debt. And if there's anything left over that you can contribute, great. But if there's not, okay, guess what? Time is still on your side when you graduate. Whether you start saving at 18 or 20 or 22 or even 24 for retirement, you've got sometimes decades before people start taking saving for retirement seriously. So you've got decades of time over some other folks in this.
22:56
Damian Dunn
And if your mind is already going towards, what do I do? You're in good shape because you need to weather this storm. Seems a little bit strong, but you just get through this time period of your life, learn as much as you can. Try not to make too many expensive financial decisions. And as soon as you're out, you've already shown me that you are set up to work through your income and expenses in a mature and responsible way, and you're going to prioritize the stuff that really matters to you.
23:25
Peter Dunn
Yeah, I'm with you. The good sign here is that the person cares, and that same caring mind will be there post graduation. What do you think about this idea here of, okay, school year? I hear you. You are doing some work. Your parents don't want you to work more. Okay, that's discussion between you all, but shouldn't that impact this person's summer jobs selection criteria? I used to make bank during the summers, and yeah, I used to spend it on Papa John's Pizza in Madison, Indiana, which resulted in weight gain and courting Mrs. Planner, which that also worked out because the time anyway. But yeah, I mean, work in the summer and then do some interesting things with that.
24:12
Damian Dunn
Yeah, that's the answer that I would probably lean into. What we don't know is what is the course of study? Are there internships that are being pursued that really don't pay much? Maybe there's not a lot of hours to go around. Maybe there are other responsibilities at home that have to be taken care of to help out the householders. There's a ton of variables that could potentially preclude a lot of money being made, relatively speaking, for a student in the summer. And even so, maybe even if they do make a lot of money, if they're footing a lot of the bill for college themselves, I can see and living expenses, I can see why all of that money that they make in the summer has to be banked and just get drawn down on throughout the semester themselves to make sure they're having a reasonable experience at school.
25:01
Peter Dunn
May I make a terrible recommendation?
25:03
Damian Dunn
Yes. Two segments in a row.
25:05
Peter Dunn
Okay. Actually, it's 15 years in a row. So at the risk of sounding like a 45 year old guy who's doing okay, telling a 20 something kid to work more. Here we go. What if and I don't know this person, I don't know what's going on, like you said in the particulars and the dynamics of their house, but what if the summer what if they just went nuts? Like they pursued low paying internships because they had to, but then had a second gig, got in the gig economy at night, on the weekends to not take away the fun? But if this person cares this much about this, theoretically they're already miserable with their financial life anyway. You might as well fix that aspect of it. What do you think about that? Terrible recommendation, but what do you think about that?
25:58
Damian Dunn
I think for a very small subset of people, that suggestion might make sense. I think for the vast majority of folks, that's a sure way to burn yourself out in the summer and then continue that pattern once you get into the stresses of school.
26:12
Peter Dunn
What's strange about if we're going to line up, this is going to be aggressive. I just thought I work out about 7 seconds ahead in my brain, and we're going to an ugly place. Let's say there's a spectrum of ambition and responsible mentality for a college student. There's a spectrum, oh, man, this is going to be ugly. And one end, you've got this person who is like, how can I invest? How can I save? How can I do better? They're on the far end of the spectrum. On the other end of the spectrum is someone that none of this is on their radar and their perspective is much more self indulgent, much more myopic. I've really toned it down.
26:55
Damian Dunn
It was going to be worse.
26:57
Peter Dunn
This person, in my estimation, is as far as a person can reasonably be as a college student, is that the mentality is healthy, and it is not myopic. I mean, is there any flowers in that?
27:13
Damian Dunn
It's a really interesting perspective, actually, because.
27:15
Peter Dunn
If we think about why do you say actually?
27:18
Damian Dunn
You can draw your own conclusions. But if we think about the average opportunities that a college student may have for in school, out of school employment, wage gain, whatever. I feel like Avery's probably taking advantage of most everything that is being put in front. Of her at this point, and I think she's probably at the high end of that spectrum, so there's not probably a lot left on the table for her to try and scrape unless she wants to go your route. And pick up a second job or figure out how to rake in some extra cash on the side when she can. Whether it's in school, out of school, whatever. But there is that other demographic where they're along for the ride, man, and that doesn't work out too well. You usually end up out of school with a lot of debt and not a whole bunch more to show for it.
28:11
Peter Dunn
What if she eats grains and legumes and then just really scraps that way?
28:17
Damian Dunn
We work here at Your Money Line with so many different types of people based on levels of stability.
28:22
Peter Dunn
We've nailed it. You ever think about just trusting a person's brain? We work here at Your Moneyline with so many different types of people based on levels of stability. And there's one group of people we tend to work with where they've achieved so much that we trust their brain. We can pour into them like, you know what? You can figure this out. And there's other folks that have not achieved that level of stability where, frankly, we just have a little less faith in their ability to have pattern recognition and know what to do. In this email, all I'm hearing and reading is, I trust this brain. And sometimes you got to expect future good decisions from people who make good decisions. And the ugly flip side of that is, why do we constantly surprise ourselves in life by being surprised by a person who makes bad decisions making more bad decisions?
29:19
Damian Dunn
Yeah, I think you're right. Avery, in this case, probably hasn't had a chance to see a lot of those good decisions come to fruition yet, and so she doesn't have anything to bolster her self confidence. And what we can do is say.
29:29
Peter Dunn
It'S going to be okay with that big brain energy. All right, coming up after the break, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to talk to you about mortgages. I'm going to talk to you about why I'm shocked anyone's getting one right now. I'm Pete the planner. That's a tease. I'll steal jokes. I got no pride.
29:48
Damian Dunn
Lee sliding into our chat here. I'm going to see Lee soon. Did you know that?
29:53
Peter Dunn
Really? Do I know where or why?
29:58
Damian Dunn
No. I've got a breakfast scheduled with him for one of my trips to Indy Hoosier soon.
30:01
Peter Dunn
Oh, my gosh. Lee provided one of the greatest photos in show history.
30:08
Damian Dunn
Yes.
30:09
Peter Dunn
He was watching the live stream or he was watching the live stream right in his house.
30:14
Damian Dunn
Is it a stream or a replay? It was us on a TV, and.
30:18
Peter Dunn
The aesthetic of this living space was bonkers. It was bonkers. It was like a backlit TV. It was just unbelievable. It's like, man, I've never been to a place that nice, and I'm just virtually there on the television. It was great.
30:32
Damian Dunn
Yeah. I'd love a know goggle set where I could just virtually watch TV with Lee into that room.
30:39
Peter Dunn
Did we ever look into what Lee does for a living? Did we ever do this?
30:43
Damian Dunn
I mean, I've talked to him a few times. Yeah.
30:47
Peter Dunn
Is he in a creative industry?
30:50
Damian Dunn
I'll let Lee divulge whatever he wants in the chat if he wants.
30:53
Peter Dunn
I'm looking him up on LinkedIn right now.
30:55
Damian Dunn
I know.
30:55
Peter Dunn
I know him. I just forget. Oh, here he goes. Okay, everyone calm. Oh, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. He's handsome, too. Good hair. Okay, man, you can go to his wife like these guys love me. I'll call a handsome man. I'm not opposed to that. Oh, speaking of handsome men, our very own Steven here at the office. He and his wife welcomed a little girl this week. Congrats to Baby Blackburn. Yet to be named at this point, right?
31:33
Damian Dunn
Last time I saw it wasn't I wasn't sure if they had settled on anything since the announcement.
31:37
Peter Dunn
She's a lovely little girl. Mom and daughter are doing fine. And Steven's probably hugging everyone because that's what he does. Okay, column time. Are you ready to go? Sure. Neat. Three, two, one. Back on the Pete the planner show. All right, dame, I wrote in my IBJ column this week, which stands for could be several things, but we're going to go with Indianapolis business Journal column about how I was at a party. True. What? Okay, it was more of a gathering.
32:12
Damian Dunn
Okay.
32:12
Peter Dunn
It was some people in a circle last weekend and someone brought up, would you ever move? And I got visibly ill because I have a two and a half percent mortgage, a ten year mortgage, two and a half percent. Current mortgage rates are somewhere around seven. And I'm not going to argue what they are, but they're around seven. No, that's like a dog barking, saying no, I don't know, I did that. We have a new affiliate in Bloomington, Indiana. They are terrified. Dame, why would anyone voluntarily give up what I view to be their greatest asset, which is a two and a half percent mortgage during high interest rate environment to a whatever money they're currently borrowing, borrow at a higher rate. And, you know, when people move, what do they generally do? They take on more debt and they're going to take on that at a higher rate.
33:08
Peter Dunn
It makes no sense.
33:09
Damian Dunn
Job change is one. Maybe they have to move. I don't know if you would call that a voluntary.
33:16
Peter Dunn
I would not call that voluntary, oddly enough.
33:18
Damian Dunn
All right, retiring. They own the house outright and they are just selling it and going to only use a portion of the proceeds to buy a new house. They're downsizing.
33:28
Peter Dunn
Yeah. Okay, there's a couple of points there that actually may conflict in my mind. Number one, the cash buyer is out of the picture because they're not taking on a mortgage. Are you just saying they're taking on a small mortgage?
33:41
Damian Dunn
They could potentially take on a small mortgage to just have a little bit of extra cash.
33:45
Peter Dunn
Okay, that's one. Number two, downsize. Schmount size. I think people right size. I don't think downsizing actually is a thing anymore because very few people downsize from a financial perspective. They may downsize from a square footage perspective, but what they'll do is look at bigger closets. You get a big kitchen island. I don't using this voice for no particular reason. You just do all these things. And the house is more expensive because you have more expensive tastes, because you've earned it. You got kids out of the house, hopefully. I think I'm projecting.
34:18
Damian Dunn
Have you thought about I roughly know what you're hoping to do in retirement?
34:24
Peter Dunn
Sure.
34:26
Damian Dunn
Have you thought about your housing plan for post retirement? Do you think you will downsize in square foot significantly after you retire?
34:35
Peter Dunn
Yes.
34:37
Damian Dunn
Interesting.
34:39
Peter Dunn
But the price will go up. Right.
34:41
Damian Dunn
But in my mind well, I mean, then the sale price of your house should go up as well, right. I mean, there's some correlation there.
34:49
Peter Dunn
So I view my mortgage as one of the most valuable tools I have in my financial arsenal, or would be a toolbox. Can you have a tool in an arsenal or what? I've said weapon in an arsenal, tool in a toolbox.
35:01
Damian Dunn
Whatever makes you happy.
35:02
Peter Dunn
Pete, you carry a flashlight in your pocket. You should know these things.
35:05
Damian Dunn
We don't want to go into this for that segment.
35:07
Peter Dunn
One of our listeners, an OG listener down in North Carolina, I think, or South Carolina, hit me up on Instagram this week and says he's Team Flashlight in the Ha. He's a real man, though.
35:20
Damian Dunn
What?
35:21
Peter Dunn
More than you. He hunts and fishes.
35:25
Damian Dunn
Do you think? I haven't ever killed something.
35:28
Peter Dunn
Okay. Anyway, I view my mortgage as a tool, and it's not only because it will be paid off by the time my son goes to college, but it's because it occupies so little of my obligation. And here's the other wild part about this seven percentage rate. I gave a pertinent example here, let's say, right, a couple of years ago, you borrowed $300,000 at 3% on a 30 year mortgage. Through the life of that loan, you're paying roughly $150,000 interest. Okay. So you're buying a $300,000 home for $450,000 outlay. You with me? Yeah. At seven and a quarter percent, which is a very common interest rate right now on a 30 year mortgage for the same 300,000 thing, whatever it is, the shanty. I don't mean that. Whatever, $436,750 interest, Dame. That's nearly three times so you're talking about 736,000 versus 450,000. Don't even mention the fact that your payment on a monthly basis is going to be so much significantly higher that you're going to be able to live less life and fund fewer goals.
36:46
Peter Dunn
You're going to have an outlay that's nearly three times higher.
36:50
Damian Dunn
With this decision, I've thought about our mortgage. We refinanced roughly about the exact same time you did.
36:57
Peter Dunn
Yes.
36:58
Damian Dunn
And it's kind of in our nature. It was like, okay, maybe we pay down the mortgage a little bit faster. I have no desire to pay my mortgage down faster right now. I'm sure you have yours timed up for some meaningful events in your life. Mine is pretty close to that. But even if it was off by a number of years, I don't know that I could bring myself to pay it off faster because the mortgage is so cheap and it just doesn't make any sense to throw additional cash at that liability right now.
37:28
Peter Dunn
I want to take you back two years. Sure. And let's say that you and I were going to buy a brand new house and we had cash. We're hanging out, we've decided to cohabitate, okay, we're buying a house, we've got the cash. But we look over and it's like, well, hey, you could just actually borrow it two and a half percent. We're probably going to borrow at two and a half percent. We're not going to do a huge cash outlay. Right. Yeah.
37:51
Damian Dunn
And I feel like that's potentially really dangerous advice or a projection for a lot of people because that doesn't always work out well for some individuals, even though it may be the mathematically right thing to do, you could end up in a worse spot. If you don't take that money that you have in cash and use it wisely and then absorb that mortgage, you have nothing to show for it.
38:16
Peter Dunn
It's a yes and none either or. Right. You can make that purchase with two and a half percent mortgage, but then you've got to theoretically earn more than two and a half percent on your assets, which I'm not going to call it easy, I'll call it nuanced. Because here's the alternative. Right now, you're going to take out a mortgage at seven and a quarter percent. Yeah. Your money market is earning 4%. But are we seeing the spread? Are we seeing that in order to sit on cash and outpace the seven and a quarter mortgage rate, you'd actually have to put your money at risk in the market? Yeah, we got a minute or so left. Two minutes left. But here's where I'm at. Who in the world with a two and a half 3% mortgage right now is voluntarily moving voluntarily? That's like, oh yeah, we just want more space.
39:12
Peter Dunn
It's a terrible financial decision.
39:14
Damian Dunn
So here's the question. What does that interest rate have to drop to for you to consider voluntarily getting out of a current mortgage that is in the two to 3% range?
39:27
Peter Dunn
Won't happen. Personally, I will answer it two ways. Okay. I will say me, not going to happen. It would have to drop to 2%. And then I would do it in the fours. You could maybe justify it. And let's also acknowledge that 7% 6% in the big scheme of things, not bad. Not bad. Not that bad. And so what freaks me out here is if you are a renter right now, this doesn't freak me out, but if you're a renter right now, yeah, buy a house. I wouldn't wait for interest rates necessarily come down. But if you're already in it, then if you're already in a home, it's a terrible idea to change up right now. Yeah.
40:14
Damian Dunn
And if you are looking to buy a house. If you are that renter right now, set your expectations accordingly. You're not going to see the deals.
40:21
Peter Dunn
That you saw two years ago on the Facebook Live stream. Stephen mentions homeowners. He corrected himself. On average, sell every seven to ten years. Absolutely true. Right. We won't go too deep into it. But that's why the real estate industry will have things like starter home and family home and dream home. That's why we sort of label it to perpetuate the idea of selling every seven to ten years. They might have been in my house for 14 years, and this will be the 15th year I'm not getting out, at least for another seven years. No. Ten years I'm there. Nice.
41:03
Damian Dunn
This will be my 11th for us.
41:05
Peter Dunn
And you're going nowhere. No. Coming up after the break, 22nd tease for the next segment. Okay, coming up after the break is what's called biggest Waste of money of the week. So we got a new affiliate this week in Bloomington, Indiana. WGCL. Right here on the Pete the Planner show actually worked out. And so every fourth segment, we do an item that is the giant waste of money. We do it every week. We've done it for over a decade, and that's what we'll do next. Right here on the Pizza Planner show actually worked out. I got to explain how the show works.
41:34
Damian Dunn
Yeah, they'll appreciate it if they stuck with us through the first segment.
41:39
Peter Dunn
Damn. I've got a big mode switching day, which I typically don't have those these days, where I have a diverse number of high brain tasks, but they're so diverse that I can't get in a flow. It's like you saw some of my correspondence this morning on a particular topic and then switched to trying to be entertaining. And then the calls that I have, I'm like. So it's weird. I went to this day, really dreading it. Then add in the two and a half hours sleep because the stomach flu hit our house, and I'm out there moving trash bags around. I mean, it was a good time.
42:15
Damian Dunn
Man to man defense. It was shuffle your feet, don't get crossed over.
42:21
Peter Dunn
It was wild. You know, it's weird as you get older as a person through childhood, you figure out the when to make it to the toilet situation, but it's those formative years that you just can't figure it out. Oh, Rick Swing just asked a really good question. I think I know the answer.
42:42
Damian Dunn
Really?
42:43
Peter Dunn
I think I know the answer. I could go back to the archives, but I am not that guy. Question was, what is the first bomb? I believe I brought this up recently, and I've either conflated it with the first one or you know what? I've evernote right here on my computer, and I've got every radio show ever.
43:02
Damian Dunn
Really?
43:03
Peter Dunn
The early ones, not these.
43:05
Damian Dunn
I was prepared in a decade.
43:08
Peter Dunn
What did we call that radio? Oh, I had a radio folder. Oh, here it is. Oh, 2010. Oh, man. Oh, this is going to get interesting. Okay, hold on, everybody. I think it was a dog running service where you could pay someone to not walk your dog in Chicago, but to run your dog.
43:27
Damian Dunn
Depending on the dog, that's probably worth every penny.
43:31
Peter Dunn
We may do it. Okay, we are back to 2009. I think I found it. Oh, my gosh. This is the first entry. November 18, 2009. This could be it. Envelopes. If you're the type of person that still sends correspondence via snail mail and you like the taste of bacon and really, who doesn't, then you need to grab yourself some envelopes. These standard size bacon looking envelopes eschew the nasty and potentially deadly glue of old for a new adhesive that tastes just like real bacon. Just don't forget the postage. $7 for 25 of them. How shocked are you that I was actually able to come up with that?
44:17
Damian Dunn
That's potentially the most exciting revelation, surprising revelation that we've had on this show in my tenure.
44:25
Peter Dunn
Holy cow. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe that we did it in the show.
44:36
Damian Dunn
I know you helped your dad when you were younger, much like I did. Was one of your jobs ever licking stamps and envelopes?
44:44
Peter Dunn
Amazing question. I was in charge of liquid adhesive, but they had a porcelain water roller, and the only thing is it would get gummy and you just had to change out the water. And so it was this white porcelain with this white roller, and I would always roll envelopes. And then your hands get all absolutely. Were you licking or did you have.
45:10
Damian Dunn
A ceramic roller as old school manual? I was licking every single one of those things.
45:16
Peter Dunn
If you did it today, it gets stuck in your goatee there. Good. Did you call that? It's not a goatee, it's a beard.
45:21
Damian Dunn
Because it goes beard. It's a full beard.
45:23
Peter Dunn
You did shave it down the last couple of weeks.
45:25
Damian Dunn
Yeah. It had a small trimming accident and necessitated cutting it down greatly.
45:33
Peter Dunn
Let's get a close up of you there, Dame. I know that we're a podcast and there's an audio situation going on here. You have really trimmed up here and not just the hair. You've lost a few lbs, my man.
45:49
Damian Dunn
A few. Still have a few more to go. Hit a little bit of a plateau recently, but yeah, this too shall pass. Just got to keep fighting a good fight. We'll get there.
45:58
Peter Dunn
This is not a helpful comment. I was in my photos on my phone the other day. I want to see if I can find it. And you know how it finds certain people, what they call it people and places. So I opened it and I saw you.
46:11
Damian Dunn
Depending on the year, it could have been great.
46:13
Peter Dunn
This is 2018. July 6 of 2018. Okay. Dude, I'm trying to show it. Oh, I don't know. I don't have my picture up on the screen. Podcasters. Love our show. Let me go. Solo layout for me, for the people. Here we go. Can people see that?
46:31
Damian Dunn
Those were your glasses, by the way.
46:33
Peter Dunn
I know you were trying to look like me. Yeah, but, man, look how skinny uncle Dame is. Okay, let's back. Let's do the show. I bet the people in Bloomington are.
46:44
Damian Dunn
Just they're not listening to this.
46:47
Peter Dunn
I know. I'm just saying, like, at this point, they're, like, coming to terms with what's going on, and they're totallywhelmed, like, not overwhelmed, not underwhelmed, just whelmed. This is whelming. Can something be whelmed? I mean, this is sort of like an old hacky joke, but I'm curious.
47:04
Damian Dunn
Has to be, right?
47:04
Peter Dunn
Is whelming a word? Whelming. Whelm. Engulf, submerge, or bury. So you can be whelmed. Sure. What does feeling whelmed? Okay, well, I mean, let's continue. Jeremiah, we got stuff to do. We don't have time for your garbage. All right, I got to pull up. Biggest waste of money of the week, and then we will hit the road here. Yeah, this is dead space. That's what it sounds like, everybody. Oh, no, you don't have it? I do, but I just got to find it.
47:39
Damian Dunn
Oh, what?
47:41
Peter Dunn
Calm down, calm down. There it is. All right, here we go. In three, two, one. This week's biggest waste of money of the week, right here on the pizza planner show is the Tiffany and Co nike air force 118 37 shoebox. Tiffany and co. Recently tiffany and Co recently collaborated with Nike on the black suede and Tiffany blue air Force 118 37 sneakers. Did we talk about those on the show?
48:16
Damian Dunn
I don't think so.
48:17
Peter Dunn
I've seen them. They sold out instantly. To mark the occasion, tiffany's artisans created a special shoebox crafted by hand in Rhode Island over the course of 155 hours. It's made using the brand's signature 0925 sterling silver, polished to a mirror like shine and sports the iconic swoosh on the top. While the Tiffany and company mark can be found underneath the lid. Weighing in at 23 pounds, it's one of one alternative to the Tiffany blue cardboard box in which the sneakers shipped. Pricing is available upon request, so I don't even know the cost. I don't. And I know that goes against the spirit of bomb here, but, like Dame, that's a wild waste of money.
49:15
Damian Dunn
Yes. Right now, it looks like spot on. Silver per ounce is $20, give or take.
49:23
Peter Dunn
Yeah, this is what I wanted.
49:24
Damian Dunn
$20 times 356oz in materials alone, it's about $7,100 in silver. Then you're going to double that, at least for the Tiffany logo. So you're probably looking at $20,000 box, I'm guessing.
49:43
Peter Dunn
Okay, so the math was there's 16oz in a pound, right?
49:46
Damian Dunn
Correct.
49:47
Peter Dunn
So 16 times 23 times 20 for the silver is only $20 an ounce.
49:54
Damian Dunn
That's what I got.
49:57
Peter Dunn
Dame, what's in the news this week?
50:00
Damian Dunn
I got to get back to the right page now.
50:01
Peter Dunn
I had to oh, Bloom so disappointed.
50:04
Damian Dunn
That's all right, get ready. More consumers are leaning on credit cards to afford increasingly expensive necessities such as food and rent. That helped propel total credit card debt to a record $930.6 billion at the end of 2022, an 18 and a half percent spike from a year earlier. According to the latest quarterly report by TransUnion, the average balance rose to just over $5,800 in that same period.
50:32
Peter Dunn
Is that average balance per card or in aggregate?
50:36
Damian Dunn
That's a great question. The article does not say I'm going.
50:40
Peter Dunn
Card because I remember yeah, I think back when I was fertile, I don't know actually what that means. Back in the day, I remember like, average household credit card debt was like $16,000. So I can't give you a timestamp on that, but there's no way 5800 is the all time high now.
51:03
Damian Dunn
No, I think that's got to be per card.
51:06
Peter Dunn
What do you think here? Let's try to be empathetic about this. But my feeling is that consumer appetite was stoked by stimulus and then when the money went away, it's hard to get rid of that appetite. That's my gut.
51:29
Damian Dunn
We did such a great job of trying to prevent our economy from falling into shambles with all the stimulus and spending that it stoked that. Now we have consequences left over from that. We are still spending money like we did when we had it and a lot of people don't anymore. So combine that with inflation, even if they've cut back on a lot of the spending that they wouldn't have done otherwise, other stuff is just expensive and they are stuck between a rock and a hard place at this point.
52:01
Peter Dunn
Yeah, I mean, I get it. That's what scares me about whatever could happen next. If there is going to be a prolonged recession or a period of contraction, which feels a little bit up in the air, especially this week with some of the banking news that's been going on.
52:17
Damian Dunn
Well, and then even this morning there was the announcement. The job support came out and they added more jobs, almost 100,000 more jobs than what was estimated by Wall Street experts at this point. And yes, unemployment happened to get nudged up by a couple of tenths of a percent, but you just aren't sure which direction it's going to go. Stocks took that news in stride and actually the futures were up at that point. I haven't looked to see what the market's doing yet today, but they are not concerned as of today about what Mr. Jerome Powell is going to do to interest rates. I'd give that another few days and they'll freak out and prices will go down and we'll be on that roller coaster.
52:56
Peter Dunn
Let's acknowledge, too, that inflation probably led to higher credit card balances. If people are going to the grocery store and dealing with that by the way of the new jobs report. I'm stealing your news segment. Sure. Leisure and hospitality were 105,000 of those jobs.
53:13
Damian Dunn
Interesting?
53:14
Peter Dunn
Healthcare and social assistance, just under 63,000. Retail, 50,000. Government, 46,000. Professional and business services, 45,000. Okay, so this is where it gets a little wild. Information lost, 25,000 jobs. I'm going to go with that's. Tech, right? That's got to be tech and transportation and whale housing. That's where you keep, like, hammerhead and sperm whale. Yeah. Rare opportunity there, by the way. Transportation and warehousing, 21,000 jobs lost and manufacturing, 4000 jobs lost. So it all netted out to 300 and some 311,000. What else is the news?
53:59
Damian Dunn
Returning female workers are helping to power the economy despite high inflation and interest rates. Working women have gained more jobs than men for four straight months and now hold more than 49.8% of all non farm payroll positions. A good chunk of those are in the service sector, the economy's underlying source of strength. The influx comes after the COVID-19 Pandemic knocked close to 12 million women out of work, compared with 10 million men. Many women are reaping wage gains as employers compete for a limited pool of workers, which is helping support renewed growth in consumer spending.
54:32
Peter Dunn
That's great news. That's great. This week as we celebrated International Women's Day. It was March eigth. Is that right? 9th eigth.
54:40
Damian Dunn
9Th nobody?
54:42
Peter Dunn
Yes. What else?
54:43
Damian Dunn
Yeah. More companies are offering childcare at work, a persistent labor shortage in the Biden administration. Incentives for chipmakers are motivating more companies to explore on site childcare best place for working parents. A network of 1700 businesses promoting family friendly employer policies found that nearly 11% of the network's members provided onsite childcare between April 2021 and September 2022, up 9.3% in the first year of the COVID-19 Pandemic and five and a half percent in the months before Pandemic lockdowns began in March 2020. A big reason, many of them say, is to better recruit working parents, some of whom shifted to part time work or left the labor force altogether amid Pandemic fueled exodus of childcare workers.
55:26
Peter Dunn
All right, it's dumb math with Pete on the radio time here, and I'm going to get out over my skis. So everyone get ready. Dame, let's say you're a big business and you've got 50 families that have $2,000 a month of health care or childcare costs each. Okay? All right, it's $100,000. And let's say that as a business, you can put a childcare in the building there, staff it at appropriate wages. And I don't want to say write it off because that's a little weird way to go about it, but it's a plus. The math works in a big way and it makes life so much easier for employees. I know we used to work with one of the largest childcare companies in the world, and I know that was a big vertical for them. And I got to think post Pandemic as people if you ask people to come back to work, you got to give them a place for their kids.
56:36
Peter Dunn
It's got to be booming business. You got to think.
56:39
Damian Dunn
I would think there was a large employer in my neck of the woods that offered childcare for their employees, and it was a big story when they took it away because it impacted families and how they had to make the changes.
56:52
Peter Dunn
Sometimes we forget that as employers, the job sometimes is getting things out of your people's way so they can do the work that they want to do. That contributes to the bigger bot, which is get problems out of the way, get childcare costs out of the way, get lack of financial literacy out of the way, get health care issues out of the way, get mental health challenges out of the way. And if you can do that, then it seems just more cooperative. But then again, what am I talking about? What we actually do for a living, I don't know. Bloomington, welcome to the party. Glad to have you as an affiliate here on the Pete the Planner radio network. That's all we have time for. Send you good vibes. Good vibes. Are all that's in the budget? I'm Pete the Planner, and I missed the out by 3 seconds, so that's good.
57:36
Peter Dunn
Oh, dame. I have to go do things. It kind of felt like an old school show.
57:44
Damian Dunn
It did. Do you think in Bloomington, Mellon camp just sits in the studio and plays the intros and outros for us?
57:51
Peter Dunn
Congratulations, Damian. That's an amazing joke because some people are like, what is he talking about? I don't care. It's well worth the deep cut that was. Congratulations, Damien. You've gotten funnier in 23. Did something happen over the holidays?
58:08
Damian Dunn
I started losing weight. I think that it was slowing me down. It was slowing the brain down.
58:13
Peter Dunn
The mayonnaise was just, like, clogging up the brain. Yeah. Okay. I got to go. You got to go? We got to go. Kristen, come back. The show was fine without her, but the show was better with her.
58:29
Damian Dunn
She made a comment.
58:30
Peter Dunn
I know. I didn't want to acknowledge it.
58:32
Damian Dunn
I did.
58:34
Peter Dunn
Yes. Kristen was going to have a bad guess. Big surprise. All right, kristen, come. Bring your bad guesses back next week. Hey, everybody, stay getting money.
