Peter Dunn: [00:00:00] So this might be the most serious episode of the Pete the Planner podcast in what we believe to be well over 500 episodes. Joining me now to, to discuss from the top is Damian Dunn. Hello, Dame. Hello, Pete. First off, no one freak out. Everyone's okay. You know, within the show, there's no one, this isn't like a sad thing.
Although, Dame, we are talking about a very, very serious topic today. And we're going to handle it with the seriousness that it deserves. As regular listeners might note my tone's a little different today, Dame, we're going to try to keep it that way.
Damian Dunn: I, yeah, I think it's in everybody's best interest that we do that.
And. It's not because Kristen isn't here. I mean, it's just just a twist of fate that we're discussing this on a week that she is out traveling on behalf of us and changing the lives of financial lives of others across this great country of ours. So sorry, Kristen. Better luck next time. But [00:01:00]
Peter Dunn: here we are to cut to the chase name today.
We have a crossover episode that may take us down a genre of podcast that I never really expected to be a part of. Yeah, that's a good point. We are dipping our toes. Into the waters of a true crime podcast today, and we have the documents. So here's what we're doing today. And hello everyone, by the way.
Hello, all our regular listeners. We love you very much. And for those that have never listened before, because you've somehow seen this on the internet, because I kind of get that feeling this is about to happen. Welcome. The show is a money show. I'm Peter Dunn Pete, the planner, Damian Dunn, who oddly enough, despite the fact that we look like two sides of the same thumb are not related.
Dame, are we in fact not related? Well, we still haven't.
Damian Dunn: No, we have. No,
Peter Dunn: we're not. I'm not doing a 23andMe or I'll end up on a true crime podcast today. We are we are going further [00:02:00] in our quest to protect people from unscrupulous financial advisors. So much so. That this past week, a lawsuit was filed in Hamilton County Court in the state of Indiana, and we're going to cover the entire lawsuit.
It is, in my opinion, absolutely shocking. It is exactly what Damien, Kristen, and I have been talking about in terms of if you search out and do your due diligence of your advisor, you will find things that will impact your willingness to do business with them. And Damien, this is the Perfect. Unbelievable example of that.
Yeah,
Damian Dunn: I wouldn't want to try and sensationalize anything, but if we would have tried to think of a case that would have potentially hit all the right buttons, this is pretty
Peter Dunn: darn close. So here's what you will not get from us today. You will not get our normal levity. I'm very sorry about that, but I do think you will be engaged [00:03:00] all the same because this is, this is pretty intense.
So during for those, again, listening for the first time, we are a podcast, but we're actually a radio show as well through in the midst of the podcast, we record a radio show. You will hear us do segments one, two, three, and four. They're sort of just radio benchmarks. It's sort of a long story, not worth explaining.
You'll see how it works here in just a second. And we're going to do very little talking on the podcast. Instead, we're going to save the meat for the radio audience as well. This airs in various radio markets throughout Indiana. And it airs on the weekends. So listening to it live now. You were getting it first on Tuesday, our podcast releases and who knows what's going to happen between now and then Dame a couple housekeeping rules before we get started.
And I don't know. Do you think I should go through the difference between criminal and civil, civil court on the air? Do you think I should do that now?
Damian Dunn: I think it would behoove us to make sure we do that
Peter Dunn: on air. Okay, [00:04:00] we'll start there. So let's go ahead and do this though. These are accusations.
It is a complaint and it will play out in civil court. It is quite possible criminal charges come after this that are on the tails of these alleged. Torts, I believe now. I'm just really really stretching myself here.
Damian Dunn: Yeah, how's that liberal arts
Peter Dunn: education paying off for kind of good? But I mean, I don't know if they're torts or not But I will say this and I will say this a couple different times.
I did have the opportunity to speak with the complainants Attorney on the phone this morning to seek comment he is very much looking forward to their chance to make their case in civil court, and he is primarily Interested in recapturing the funds of his clients and to the tune of 2. 6 million. This [00:05:00] is a very, very tough to go through today.
So this will be interesting. I take it for all our normal listeners who follow down in the live chat. Just know that we love to have fun today. We, we will just. Try to make sure that this doesn't happen to anyone else. So, Dame, is that enough disclaimers before we get started?
Damian Dunn: Yeah, I don't think we need to say much more because we'll end up repeating ourselves in just a
Peter Dunn: few seconds.
Yes, that's true. So we are going to stretch out the story amongst the three segments. And we are going to have to get to it because there's a lot, there's a lot on the bone here. Okay, so let's get after it. Dame, do you get your timer ready? Ready. Got my timer ready. Here goes nothing and three this week on the Pete the Planner show We don't answer your money questions We're digging deep into a court case that hit his has hit Hamilton County, Indiana courts this week It is a civil complaint and it [00:06:00] involves malfeasance of a financial advisor who Has reportedly stolen 2.
6 million for clients. We're going to cover that at length this entire show today. There will be rules joining me as Damien Dunn one of my co hosts. Hello, Damien. Hello, Pete. No relation. None. Still important. One of the rules, Dame. This is a civil lawsuit. These are not criminal charges. It is possible that this lawsuit we covered today will end up in criminal charges.
And I want to give a quick primer on the difference between criminal and civil court, because I think it's very important. Number one, criminal lawsuits. The goal is to hold the defendant accountable to the state, okay? The state being an entity. Civil lawsuit, the goal is to hold the defendant accountable to the victim.
Fair? Yes. State prosecutes and controls the case in criminal lawsuits, and the victim initiates and controls the case in [00:07:00] civil lawsuits. This is going well. I'm about to read for an hour and I can't read. The victim is a witness and does not have the right to direct the prosecution of the case or to veto the prosecutor's decisions in a criminal court, whereas the victim is a party is entitled to all important information relating to the case and can make decisions about the direction of the case, such as settlement of the claim in civil court.
There's, there's a couple other really important elements I want to get to. In criminal court, state must prove that the perpetrator is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Okay. In civil court, victim must prove that it is more likely than not that the perpetrator is liable. And so Damien, with that, we go to the case of Gregory and Catherine Hill plaintiffs versus Alexander Joyce, Rejoice Financial LLC.
Rejoice Wealth Management, LLC, and [00:08:00] Joel Parity. Alexander Joyce is a notable financial person in the state of Indiana and Central Indiana, has done numerous broadcasts, paid media and the like, and has a weekly television show on various affiliates throughout the state of Indiana. And so, Dane, we're going to jump right into the case, and I'm going to be reading exactly from the complaint.
And the complaint was filed at 11. 56 a. m. on 2. 26. 24, and here we go. At all times relevant hereto, the defendant, Rejoice Financial LLC, was purported, was a purported retirement, estate, and tax planning advisor. Owned and managed by Alexander Joyce. Rejoice is financial principal place of business is in Carmel, Indiana at all times relevant here to defendant.
Rejoice wealth management was a registered investment [00:09:00] advisory firm. Rejoice was previously registered. From May of 2018 through December of 2020, then it failed to renew. Rejoice then re registered on October 17th, 2023, months after it received a wire transfer of 2, 599, 372. 22 from the Hills, the plaintiffs, on July 31st of 2020.
23. I want to talk about this for a second. Damien, aside from the complaint, what we're seeing here is that funds were accepted to, to be invested months, July 31st to October 17th. Those are months in which the person wasn't actually registered to give financial advice.
Damian Dunn: Yeah, that's a big red flag.
But unless somebody was doing their due diligence on their side to make sure that everything was on the up and up, there's no reason that they would have known or suspected [00:10:00] that I
Peter Dunn: will be the plaintiff side to your point. But what you and I've been talking about on this show for years, if not months is if you're going to do business with someone and we are not victim shaming, we are 1000 percent not victim shaming.
You have to do a broker check. You have to do research on. The people that you're giving your money to. Back to the complaint. The Hills saw a TV commercial for Rejoice Financial and Rejoice Wealth in the summer of 2023 and thought it would be a good fit for their investment needs. The Hills met with defendant Alexander in person on or about June 26, 2023 in his Carmel, Indiana office.
During this meeting, defendant Alexander stated he would personally handle their account as their investment advisor. Damien, I'm guessing you have some thoughts.
Damian Dunn: Yeah, that's a big problem. That is a misrepresentation at best by the defendant. In this case, you can't say that you are going to manage somebody's investments if [00:11:00] you are not licensed to do so.
This is very basic. In the financial
Peter Dunn: advising back to the complaint, Defender Alexander did not disclose that he was not a registered investment advisor at that meeting on July 18th, 2023, the hills met with Alexander and Joel parody to sign an application to complete the transfer and enter into an investment advisor arrangement.
Copy of that application is exhibit a in this criminal complaint. Damien, you and I have both reviewed it. As an aside Alexander back to the complaint, Alexander did state that the Hills money would be invested at TD Ameritrade. Quick thought, Damien TD Ameritrade is a very popular place for investment advisors to have assets held, and then they manage the assets through TD Ameritrade.
So on the surface right now, just so everyone knows. That all sounds very normal. Everything that just that's very normal. No alarm bells going off [00:12:00] other than the fact that this was all done while not a registered investment advisor. Correct. Back to the complaint. Defendant Alexander further told the Hills that their money would be personally managed by him.
The agreement Defender Alexander had the Hills sign was part of a document package for persons interested in buying fund units of Perpetual Trust Services Ltd., an Australian based investment company that provides mutual funds managed by J. P. Morgan Asset Management Australia, neither Defendant Alexander nor Rejoice Financial Or rejoice wealth had a relationship with perpetual trust services.
None of this information was disclosed to the hills. Defendant Alexander filled out another form when meeting with the hills titled investor due diligence. A quick thought, Damian, you and I have both also reviewed that and I will note it is a very standard due diligence form and no alarm bells should have been going off in the [00:13:00] hills.
And in our expert opinions, back to the complaint, this form indicated that it was a foundation's investment advisor, LLC form, and part of the packet to establish an investment advisor client relationship. With foundations foundations confirmed that that I'm going to start that sentence over foundations confirmed that during July, 2023, the only person who should have been providing investment advisory services was Joel parody as an aside name, who's also named in the suit.
Back to the complaint. This form was signed by Joel parody as an investment advisor and list defendant Alexander as servicing advisor. And as a solicitor, defendant Alexander statement to the Hills that he would personally handle their account and his further interactions go beyond the scope of an investment advisory solicitor.
Dame. Well, here's what we're going to do. As an aside, [00:14:00] we're going to take a break for the radio audience here. And when we come back. That's when things actually heat up quite a bit. Okay. So we've just given you all the background. We've given you the discussion of what is in this complaint. When we come back, it is going to get interesting.
It is going to get incredibly interesting. We bring this to you today on the air. Not for entertainment purposes, but we want you to understand how serious these situations are, and we don't want you to ever be a part of one of these situations as the victim, because this is what can happen when you don't look into the background of your investment advisor.
We are not victim shaming. We are allies of the victims. We just want to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else. We will continue this conversation next. Right here on the Pete the planter show. I'm Pete the planter. All right, dame so far it it actually hurts my bones to be this serious [00:15:00] Like I'm I like I'm shaking not cuz I'm angry or anxious.
I just It's hard for me to not say kind of funny things.
Damian Dunn: Less than 20 minutes to go.
Peter Dunn: Like right now I want to say something clever and I just doesn't feel like the venue.
Damian Dunn: This is this is not the venue nor the time nor the place. Next.
Peter Dunn: I, I wanna, I do want, we did some research and I don't think this is important to, to go on the air. We did some research to verify the registration status.
And in fact, Rejoice Wealth Management LLC was registered and failed to renew on December 31st of 2020. And where that gets a little interesting. And again, they re registered under Rejoice Wealth Management, no LLC. And that [00:16:00] matters name changes. It actually does matter matters a lot. 10, 17, 2023, 10, 17, 2023.
So this is in the midst of all of this going on. And dame, when we come back from the, when we go back into the show here, I'm going to point this out or maybe in the next segment, there's also something criminal going on here during this timeframe, the fall of 2023. With alexander joyce. Yes that provides some context.
I believe important context, to this the suit But we'll get back to that in a second. So let's
Damian Dunn: that by the way is not alleged it is Settled it's it's nothing that we are hypothesizing on it. It is a criminal
Peter Dunn: Let's just put it this way. I can show you the booking photo if you want and and time served released from jail During [00:17:00] this timeframe.
Okay, let's get back at it. You ready, buddy? Let's go. 321 back on the Pete the planner show Different episode today folks if you listen on the weekends, we are going through a criminal complaint That is was filed on February 26 2024 In the state of Indiana in the county of Hamilton, Gregory and Catherine Hill plaintiffs versus Alexander Joyce rejoiced financial LLC rejoiced wealth management LLC and Joel parody for segment of the show.
We went through the background and I just want to note if you missed it, we're not going to cover all of that again because we've already covered it. Go to Pete, the planner. com and get our podcast on Tuesday, or you can go to youtube. com slash Pete, the planner, and you can watch the live stream of this episode as it occurred on Friday at 10 AM.
on March 1st. [00:18:00] Damien Dunn joins me as always. Damien this, these are accusations. This is a complaint. Alexander Joyce and the other parties will either find themselves held liable or they will not. It's not a matter of innocence and guilt. That's not a thing in civil court. And so let's continue on where we last left off.
The victims alleged victims were presented with Australian investments of which the accused didn't have a relationship with. Back to the complaint on or about July 26, 2023. Definite Alexander had the Hills fill out an ACH form and stated that it was needed to complete transfer to TD Ameritrade.
Just quick aside, please quick aside. An ACH firm is, is most people know is a kind of like a wire transfer. You're, you're, you're, you're kind of, you're just transferring money out of one account into another ACH. I'm sure we could look it up. What's it [00:19:00] stand for, Dan? Well, Automated Clearing
Damian Dunn: House, I believe.
Peter Dunn: Great, now we're guessing.
Could
Peter Dunn: be wrong. Back to the complaint. The ACH transfer form was blank, and when asked, Alexander stated that he would get the account number from TD Ameritrade and complete the form. Information gathered by the Securities Division I need to make an aside. There is a separate legal case going on right now with the Indiana Secretary of State's Office Securities Division on this case.
Okay, back to the complaint gathered by Securities Division show that the 2, 599, 372. 22 of the hills that the defendant Alexander stated would be wired into account 2, On July 31st, 2023 on behalf of the Hills was instead wired into a business bank account belonging to rejoice wealth with defendant Alexander as the signer of the account, Damian thoughts.
Damian Dunn: You, you do [00:20:00] not take custody of client funds into your own account that you. You do not. That is a big, big problem. It goes directly to the receiving firm, preferably from the transferring firm directly, and your hands stay completely clean of it. This is a big
Peter Dunn: no no. And here's why, as we go back to the case.
Back to the complaint. Less than one hour after the Hills money was wired to the account. Rejoice wealth transferred 2, 000, 002, 092 dollars and 68 cents to land quest title services DBA Dominion title for purchase of real estate at 1 1 2 2 Laurelwood, Carmel, Indiana, 2 in the name of rejoice wealth.
Damien, an aside, I have thoughts. I have receipts. I'd like to draw your attention. If you're watching the live stream to the screen right now, while I show you the [00:21:00] 2 million home that was purchased, it was purchased last sold on August 1st of 2023. The close date was August 1st of 2023 sold for 2 million.
Even it is a 27, 285 square foot home, six bedroom, 11 baths unfinished. Right? So Dame, this is a shell of a home and I will stop there. Because the next piece of context is wildly important. I'm going to keep that screen up for those watching. And if you're listening on the radio, I encourage you to go to YouTube, youtube.
com slash Pete, the planner, and you can see the visuals here. Back to the complaint, the account where the account, the account where defrauded investor money was placed was created on May 5th, 2018. And at the time of the transfer, July 31st, 2023, Had a balance of approximately 42, [00:22:00] 697 and 21 cents. It was never disclosed to the Hills that their money was used to purchase real estate title to defendant Alexander's business, rejoice wealth in his haste.
Defendant Alexander overpaid the title company by 69, 338 and 18 cents. When informed of this overage defendant. Alexander emailed back quote right on comma. Can you just send a check to? And then he listed as an aside, he listed his home address, which I'm just choosing not to read on the air. And then back to the complaint.
He gives his home address in Carmel, Indiana, four six zero three two made out to me, please. Okay. So that is the end of the quote. He gives his address four six zero three two. please. Within days, Defendant Alexander then attempted to acquire a mortgage on the Laurel Wood property for 6, 325, 000. Dame, I have [00:23:00] thoughts.
I've done some research. It is my understanding on background that this mortgage application was denied. I, I can't say that with great certainty. It is based on my research. What I have been told
Damian Dunn: that, That's a little head scratching,
Peter Dunn: isn't it? I talked to a local real estate expert and, and by expert, I mean, this person knows everything this person has built homes and in this very area and the hypothesis here, and this is, I'm speculating and it doesn't have anything to do with the case, but I'm speculating that.
The property was gonna be flipped in some capacity. It was a, a $2 million sticks sort of project that hasn't been finished. You take some money, you put some money into the house, you finish it, and then you either flip it or refinance it because the $6.325 million mortgage was likely a construction loan.
Mm-Hmm. , [00:24:00] which was denied back to the complaint when the hills later. On 9 15 23, so the home, but aside, the home was purchased on August 1st, 9 15 23 requested proof about where their money was. Defendant Alexander informed the Hills that these funds had been transferred to JPMorgan. When pushed, he told the Hills that the ACH consent form was documentation of that.
On or about 9 18 23, three days later, the Hills again requested documentation from JPMorgan verifying the funds. On 9 19 2023, the Hills were provided a printout purportedly prepared by parody, which Alexander represented their asset allocation as of 9 19 23, showing a value. Of 2, 704, 863 in the account and it's attached as exhibit C.
Dame, I [00:25:00] have some thoughts. I've reviewed that document. Have you reviewed that document? That one I have not seen. Well the next statement in the complaint and complaint goes to how I feel the asset allocation document was bogus. And in fact, the Hills funds were not in any such account. Back to my thoughts here, Dame, it was one of those things.
Like if you just like do an illustration. It wasn't, there was no account number per se. It was a, it was an illustration of like, Hey, if you put this money here here's how it's allocated. But, but it wasn't actually an account. Wow. Last thought before we hit the commercial back to the complaint on or about nine 2223, the Hills feeling uneasy about their dealings with Alexander requested that their money be transferred back to their Schwab account by Alexander.
On or about nine 28, 23, Alexander texted the Hills advising that their account was up 25, 000. That month said comment was false as there was no account. And finally [00:26:00] on or about nine 29, 23, the Hills further requested documentation from JP Morgan, confirming their account. Alexander responded that he could not get the document until the end of the month, and that's where we break right here on the Pete, the planet show here.
The conclusion of this story. Next. Okay, are
Damian Dunn: we gonna have to do something we've never done before and have four segments of show?
Peter Dunn: I kind of feel like we need to. Yeah, I mean, it would like to never have to not have our fourth segment seems like a problem. But you know what? Like we can't leave details out and because it's just not, and it's not, there's no sense in rushing it.
No, I agree. Oh boy. All right, so then I'm going to come I'm just looking at the dates here. Yeah, actually I'm going to, I'm going to come with the criminal news right back. [00:27:00] Okay. Okay.
Okay. You ready? Yes. Three. Two. Back on the Pete the Planner show. This episode is different from what you're used to. This episode is covering a civil complaint in Hamilton County Court, Indiana accusing financial advisor, Alexander Joyce and Rejoice Financial. Of Misappropriating $2.6 million. It actually just under $2.6 million of money and buying a $2 million mansion.
In the act. So Damien Dunn joins me. We're reading directly from the complaint and we need to get back to it. Again, said statement by Alexander was false as no account was ever opened at JP Morgan for the Hills. Back to a quick aside, Damien, the money was with Schwab in the [00:28:00] summer, in July. They filled out ACH forms to go to TD Ameritrade and that money was actually ACHed allegedly, according to the complaint into the purchase of a 2 million home on August 1st, and then at some point in time, all of a sudden the money is magically in JP Morgan, according to this lawsuit, and that in itself is very confusing.
Yeah,
Damian Dunn: I'm not sure that there was actually an account at JP Morgan.
Peter Dunn: I'm, I'm, I'm with you there. I don't think there was either. Okay, before I go to this next point in the, in the complaint, which fast forwards to October 22nd of 2023. I think it's important to get another piece of business out there. And I just say this is factual and contextual because I think it starts to talk of the gap that existed between 9 29 23 and 10 22 23.
That's a large gap when you don't know where your money is. It's 23 days. [00:29:00] Alexander Joyce was in jail. He was in jail. He had Charges stemming from a DUI and had probationary issues. And served time through most of October in jail. That would be the gap. Yes. Back to the complaint on or about 10 22 23, Alexander Joyce provided a circle back wealth management printout that appeared to show the hills account.
However, this printout also included accounts that defender Alexander did not have access to circle black. appears to be a wealth management software that relies upon information inputs from the investment advisor, but does not otherwise confirm the information as accurate the circle back. And as an aside within the complaint, it's both [00:30:00] described as circle black and circle back.
Okay. A clerical error back to the complaint, a printout of the circle black accounts page is attached on as exhibit D. I have reviewed that as an aside, Damien, have you reviewed that as well? I did not see that one either. You have used financial planning software, investment management software in the past, and sometimes it connects directly in aggregates with the account.
It has a back. Room handshake, if you will. And it's real time data. Other times you put, Oh, I got 50, 000 in this account, 16, 000 in this account. And then it is a, it's a hypothetical input driven system. And what this complaint saying is that's what this is correct.
Damian Dunn: Yeah. You can either have that handshake, as you said, where everything is automated or you can go in and just enter it in.
It's a very common thing in financial advising where there's reporting software.
Peter Dunn: Back to the complaint on or about 11 5 23, the Hills once again demanded the return [00:31:00] of their funds. On or about 11 10 23, the Hills received another document from Alexander Purporting to reflect their portfolio. This document was from Foundations investments and showed a value of $2,684,662.
This document was also bogus and is attached as Exhibit E. As an aside, I've reviewed that. Yeah, Damian, it appears to be bogus from what I know. Okay. And our fact checkers online have said it is circle black, not circle back. Circle black is the investment service. Thank you for that, Andy. Okay, continuing on on 29 pardon me, 12 19 2023.
The hills contacted JP Morgan and we're advised that there were no accounts opened under their social security numbers. The hills immediately contacted Alexander and demanded return of their money. Once again,[00:32:00]
aside, the next note picks up on January 17th of this year, 2024. And, and we've not done this yet. And Dan, maybe this is the whole last segment that we're going to do, but I just have to say at this point in time, I am sick to my stomach about what the hills are going through. And I'm sick to my stomach that this large gap is occurring over the.
The December holidays, and I cannot imagine when people are generally emotional and retrospective how awful December was for the
Damian Dunn: hills. Yeah, I mean, you've been, you've been in this state of limbo for six months at this point. Six months. And now you're starting to wonder, I mean, there have to be doubts creeping in.
Is it gone forever? Is it gone for good? I cannot fathom the hell that those two people are going through.
Peter Dunn: And you say going through, and that is still the reality. Part of the reason this lawsuit exists in, in, in part, it's because they still don't have their money back. You know, again, I spoke to their attorney this morning.
Some on background, [00:33:00] some with comment and they're just trying to get their money back. Okay. Back to the complaint on January 17th of 2024, Alexander admitted. They had purchased a house with the Hills money and attempted to get them to sign a real estate investors agreement attached as exhibit F as an aside, I've reviewed that agreement, Damien, I'm going to speculate here.
An attorney had to have been involved with that document. It, it very much feels like a legal document. And at this point in time, I'm thinking, okay who else is involved in this? It's a pretty intense document that basically says, Hey, now this money that you thought was in an Australian thing slash TD Ameritrade slash JP Morgan.
Well, months ago, I actually bought real estate and now you own real estate, even though the real estate's in my name and that's where we're at [00:34:00] and then we conclude. The complaint portion of the complaint with the following phrase, the Hills did not sign the real estate investors agreement and to this date have not received or pardon me, pardon me, have received none of the nearly 2.
6 million that Alexander, Alexander transferred to his account. The charges pardon me. I again, this is where I don't know civil versus criminal He's being accused of count one of conversion He's been accused of count two of breach of contract count three of fraud Count four of breach of fiduciary duty and constructive trust count five of constructive fraud and count six of quantum Marriott, this is where I should have paid attention to my latin courses and count seven negligence Okay, damie We got a minute left in this segment or so and [00:35:00] then we're going to talk about this at at length in the next segment The part the purpose of us discussing this today is nothing about anything other than protecting people from having this happen to them.
When you do not check your broker check, when you do not check criminal records or civil records within the place of which you live or where the person resides that might manage your money. These sorts of things happen. And, and here's the interesting thing right here, right now, Alexander Joyce for, for most people in our community have no idea that this is going on.
They have no idea any of this has occurred in our, I don't know if he's still out soliciting business or not, but it is possible since February 26th of 2024, people have gone into business. With him. I don't know. I don't know. It's just possible. But if they would have checked. Indiana criminal records, they would see that this is a person that allegedly cannot be trusted.
Is that a fair [00:36:00] assessment? Yeah, I
Damian Dunn: mean, if you think we are being heavy handed with the repeated calls for due diligence on the investor or the client's part, I hope, I hope you see it for what it is. We are genuinely trying to encourage those to make sure they are protecting themselves and their interests and their families because that is What we're here
Peter Dunn: for, what we're going to do when to come back.
We're going to talk in specifics, what not to do, where did things go wrong within this, not victim shaming, but how can you learn from this and make sure it does not happen to you? That is next on the Pete, the planter show. I'm Pete the planter. I really don't like being serious this long. It like I'm going to throw up
Damian Dunn: and do a special fifth segment just to let it all out.
Peter Dunn: I feel like I'm going to like after this is over, I'm going to like put on a bozo nose and clown shoes and just like go around and and squeak a rubber chicken and our colleagues the rest of the day. You can do what you want. Also called Friday, right? It's just also called Friday. Here's the other [00:37:00] element of this. I guess I'm not necessarily saying this on the radio to the radio audience. I have nothing against Alexander Joyce. It's I mean, like, personally, like I, I, I, I am,
I, I'm upset in the sense that I don't like, if, if this is in fact true, it's just terrible. Mm-Hmm. , right. You know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. . But I have nothing personally against, against him. And I view anyone in the financial world as a compatriot, like a, a colleague, that we're all just sort of working together to help people.
And so I do. I do get upset by this stuff. But these are public filings. It is quite possible, quite possible. I have no, I don't even know how to handicap this name. It's quite possible that in a court, a civil court that he is able to prove that. None of this happened. He's not liable.
Damian Dunn: I suppose that's possible.
I mean, [00:38:00] we're only hearing one side of the story and the preponderance of, of evidence. If the timeline plays out, seems to be fairly reasonable, but we don't have the other side of the story. And while I agree, I, I like to think that everybody's playing on the same team in the financial industry or trying to help people with their financial lives and get people to that next level and achieve financial stability and the retirement of their dreams.
But you and I both know that there are bad apples in every profession, and there are some folks out there who are capable of things just like this, whether or not Mr Joyce did this on. It's just a tale as old as time that people are going to take advantage of others. And unfortunately, this is this is one of the cases we have to
Peter Dunn: consider.
Yeah, again, I speaking to the attorney of the complainants today. These are hard working people, not that whether they worked hard or not does it really matter, but 2. 6 million dollars being allegedly [00:39:00] sort of just stolen from them. It's no good. I My hope in this show today is a weird one. I hope that this show gets enough listens that other people, if they are, in fact, victims of this particular advisor, another advisor are able to discover that and can, and can start the process of being made whole, if that is all humanly possible.
Yeah, you and I know that, that that's the, that's the hard part.
Damian Dunn: Yeah. I, I think that's a, a wonderful goal for this particular show. I also know that a lot of people won't proceed with their suspicions because any number of reasons that they they're struggling with. And it's, it's a shame because they, they have every right to try and be made whole and have their finances managed and responsible.
All
Peter Dunn: [00:40:00] right, let's see if we can wrap this thing up. Without me making a joke for an entire show,
Damian Dunn: that might be more impressive than making me making you laugh for six weeks straight.
Peter Dunn: Okay. Three, two, back on the Pete, the planner show. It's a special episode this week. We are looking with great detail into a civil case that was filed in Hamilton County, Indiana court on February 26th, accusing Alexander Joyce, rejoiced financial LLC, rejoice wealth management, and Joel parody of misappropriating.
And that's, that's saying it loosely, roughly 2. 6 million of clients money, which was allegedly. Supposed to be placed in Damian, a a, an Australian investment managed by JP Morgan, TD Ameritrade [00:41:00] back to JP Morgan. And then eventually the receipts suggest and documents suggest that one hour after the a CH form transferring the $2.599 million out of the hills account.
One hour later, a $2 million mansion. What's purchased by Alexander Joyce and rejoice financial. That's where we're at. Damien, the reason we're doing the show today and the reason we're like, we, it's not even about risk. It's not like, Oh, Hey, I I'm not one to want to name names or anything. I just have no interest in it.
But here's, here's the thing. This is public record and there are some massive missteps along the way that potentially potentially could have saved this. And so I'd like to take a couple minutes to talk about them without. Suggesting that the Hills did anything wrong. It's sort of good, better, [00:42:00] best. There's a good thing they could have done a better thing they could have done and the best thing they could have done, but the good should be good enough.
Dammit, a blank ACH form. Where does that hit you?
Damian Dunn: Right in the suspicions because that's a The ACH form that a client would sign to move the money from a bank account or investment account to another one Should be done on the receiving firm's paper First and foremost, and it should be very clear where that money is being sent to it will be sent to that the bank that is associated with that firm and you'll fill in the information of where it's coming from.
You'll sign off on it. The advisor will likely sign off on it, but it should be very clear that it's going to that. That institution and with with no room for change on that, because you, you want to be sure where that money is going to
Peter Dunn: end up, there will be a number, [00:43:00] I believe, and then please correct me, even if you don't know if I'm right, there should be a number on that ACH form that gives a basically like a transit number.
For the entity receiving the money, correct? I think so.
Damian Dunn: It's been a while. It's been a long time since I filled out an ACA form. So I don't know what they look like anymore, but it's very clear on where that money is going.
Peter Dunn: And for what it's worth, and this is where things get a little wonky. And this is speculative by me, wouldn't it just have been an ACAT's form and not an ACH form?
Damian Dunn: That's one of the challenges that I have. I'm glad you picked up on it because in my mind, back when I was doing this, you know, a million eons ago, it just would have been an ACA or an ACAT.
Peter Dunn: And so it's an account transfer form and it's from an investment institution to another investment institution an ACH form by nature You are banking transfers.
So it is possible And [00:44:00] again, we're speculating but we're just like trying to parse this out because this is wild the money was originally at Schwab Was it did it get moved into a Schwab bank or money market account where it could be a CH into another bank? Is that just how it's done today? I don't
Damian Dunn: know.
It had to be in cash. Obviously, it wasn't an in kind transfer So there had to be it move into cash whether it was a money market or whether it got moved into a checking account I don't know, but it certainly found its way into a Normal bank
Peter Dunn: account, you know, there's some hidden elements to this which again is speculative of us And we're just trying to handle this the best we can And you just touched on it whether you know it or not It came over in cash, which is to say at one point it was likely insecurities If you're at a schwab account, it is likely insecurities And so if they were told to liquidate those securities that is Investment advice.
And if you're not an investment advisor, you can't [00:45:00] tell someone to liquidate securities. That one alone is problematic. Now,
Damian Dunn: by the way, having an advisor advise you to liquidate securities before they come over is not. Not uncommon because the cost basis will be cleaned up and tied up there. It'll be much cleaner for reporting purposes if it comes over as cash and you hold on to the investments that you want.
But if you know you're going to make some investment changes once the money comes over, it's cleaner if it happens at that original institution. At least again, eons ago, that's how it was. Maybe cause basis travels much better than it did back then.
Peter Dunn: I think one of the more interesting aspects of this is let's call it the period of time from when the transfer occurred to December 19.
Like that period of time where, Hey, do we have a statement? Is there a confirmation? If you did this transaction and a normal basis, damn, I'm going to just. Put it out there within three business days. It is likely you have a paper confirmation arriving in [00:46:00] the, via the U S postal service at your home saying that the account was set up and that the deposit took place.
Yeah,
Damian Dunn: it was the very least you have an account with your name on it, with an account, an associated account number and all of your information, which. They clearly never got for an opening account, and then once the ACH hits, you will be able to go on and check it. Everybody has online access to your accounts these days.
It should have been super easy for them just to go on and monitor the transfer themselves. It may not show up in their account the exact day it hits the account for posting, but that next day it should have been there. So within five days, unless the paperwork gets held up for some silly reason. That money should have made it to his destination.
Peter Dunn: My biggest fear in this and part of the reason why I'm hijacking our own radio show to do this today, my biggest fear, and I think it's yours too, but you correct me please, is that this is not the only time. There's so much sophistication in the [00:47:00] grift.
I'm nervous that this is not an isolated incident. That's not an accusation. That's just a fear. And I don't know if that's where you are finding yourself as well.
Damian Dunn: Likely these incidents don't stand alone. It's, it's very uncommon for it to be a single solitary isolated incident. And so I, just out of other cases that you and I I'm sure could, could share with each other from other times that this has happened.
It's almost always never. One.
Peter Dunn: So I hope the I hope the hills are made whole. Again, if what is said in this complaint or what is, you know, purported in this complaint is in fact the truth. I hope they are made whole and I hope the state of Indiana does everything they can to do that.
Damian Dunn: Yeah, I don't know.
I don't, I don't know. I don't even know what the process would be to try and recoup some of this. Unfortunately, I also know that [00:48:00] many cases like this, there's not a whole lot
Peter Dunn: to recover. And one of our listeners via Facebook asked a really interesting question right now, and I'm not going to post their comment.
I'm just going to read it because I'll keep them out of this. Pete, is there any issue or fault at Schwab for sending the funds to rejoice instead of like owner to like owner? I thought about that too, but the nature of a blank ACH form is that the people signed it. You would think it's enough money that it, that it gets escalated within Schwab system to say, get a second glance at this, but.
I don't know. What do you, what do you think, Dame?
Damian Dunn: It'd be nice to say there are some internal controls to catch stuff like this, but if it's an ACH form to get the money from a to B and it's completed properly, I don't know if they can really do much about
Peter Dunn: it. Yeah. And it's another one of our, our regular listeners and viewers note, there's going to be some very strange tax ramifications to this too, with liquidation investment law.
I, again, I just hope the hills are made whole. If that is in fact, this all [00:49:00] plays out that way. So needless to say, Dame we have. Let the genie out of the bottle on this one. So we will be giving updates as they occur on this podcast here on out. I never aspired to have a true crime podcast. I really didn't, I actually don't like listening to them, but at the same time, this is pertinent to what we talk about on this show is pertinent to, to.
Operating for the greater good. And so I'll do it. We're going to do these sorts of things. So, Dan, thanks for ending your comedy streak. And I ended my 500 week comedy streak. So we did it together. Well, here we are. Sending you good vibes. Cause good vibes are all that's in the budget. I'm Pete, the planner.
This is the Pete, the planner show.
What's going to happen next? What's going to happen next? Oh boy.
Oh, Kristen just popped in. She's here. I think she's at the office. [00:50:00] She out in the hall and just do it. She might be let me guess. She was traveling today. And if we asked her to walk into the studio right now and go on camera, she would probably rather kill me. Probably. I, yeah. All right, Dame.
That's it. That's
Damian Dunn: a brave new world. I don't it's going to take a little while to reconcile how I feel about this show.
Peter Dunn: I, I'm nervous. I'm nervous because I don't see, this is my opinion. I don't see what money they get back. Okay. Because well, here's, what's going to, here's what I think will happen. The property will be liquidated.
Okay. Cause from, from what I can tell from records, ASA loans the property, but they're, and it could be tied directly to it was their money. So there's, there's the idea that. Well, that is literally there. It's, it's not other assets that are other people's assets. I [00:51:00] think that argument can be made paper trail, especially given that it happened in less than 60 American minutes.
But what I don't know is if other people are finding themselves in a similar predicament, how does that complicate the proceeds from that two million dollars?
Damian Dunn: And the timing I would assume would have a lot to do with that because unless other cases are brought while this one is still pending, I don't know if there would be anything else to do on
Peter Dunn: it.
So Kristen is currently in the air right now.
Damian Dunn: Is she in the air or is she on like a taxiway?
Peter Dunn: Oh, she's on a 737. So yeah, hopefully she's in there because I don't think I authorized go go in flight on this trip. You know, that was a weird flex. It was rude. I'm kidding. Of course, if you want to use Wi Fi on your flight, that's fine Just pay for it out of your personal funds.
Exactly. I mean for her to listen to us. No, it's impossible. You can't stream Can you [00:52:00] stream on an
Damian Dunn: airplane? No. And she told me she was in the middle seat earlier today. So, I mean, she would have been sharing us with two other
Peter Dunn: people. Well, that would have tripled our listeners and day before I go and for you go and the day takes hold of whatever's next.
You got anything to offer us?
Damian Dunn: No, no, I don't. It's a very demure close to the, to the show today. So yeah, let's take a look at that.
Peter Dunn: Look at that house. Okay. So for those that are on the podcast, I'm going through the pictures of the estate, the 2 million purchase. It's a, I, I drive by this on the way to work every day, by the way that is crooked stick.
I believe it looks like it looks like the masters that particular, I, now for those that are listening on the podcast, you are listening to me describe pictures, which is not my jam. Here's a picture of construction of this is the final look of what it's supposed to look like. Castle light stone facade.
[00:53:00] Wow. That rear
Damian Dunn: elevation. Yikes.
Peter Dunn: Impressive. Yeah. I mean, it's got a infinity pool sort of waterfall over a fire pit. Now again, I'm not a real estate expert by any means, but, and I didn't mean, but this looks like it would be worth more than 2 million because a pretty ordinary house in that area, rather ordinary goes for a million.
And so maybe that's where the 6 million mortgage. Yeah, it comes from
Damian Dunn: there's no way I mean there's yeah, you could not do that for 2 million. You couldn't do that for 2 million in Northeast Indiana.
Peter Dunn: Yeah. All right. I've sort of I guess maybe my final note. Fine. I do like that room. I don't know. Final note.
Final disclosure here for us again. This is about the hills. In my opinion. No one asked us, but this is about the hills and I'd love to see him made whole. I'm not trying to put pressure on [00:54:00] anything. I just, I just don't want people to get caught up in this. So for what it's worth, hope this all works out.
Someone else noted something within the comments here that I also thought of earlier this week. Someone said he would have to steal more money allegedly just to maintain the monthly upkeep. I thought of that too. I was like, man, that's a lot. I mean, that's crazy. That's a lot of upkeep. The taxes on that property prior to being built are 36, 000 a year prior
Damian Dunn: to being developed.
It was 36, 000 a year.
Peter Dunn: Yeah, so the 36, 000 prior to development were the taxes. Let me let me confirm that because I looked at it earlier today Here we go. 30, 33, 000 on the tax assessment of 2. 4 million 33, 000. Well the tax assessment is not going to be 2. 4 million when it's all over. Yeah.
Damian Dunn: That's well, it's a 1 percent cap in Indiana.
So do the math on what the assessment, take your best guess on assessment. So,
Peter Dunn: you [00:55:00] know, I want to, I want to do something else here. I want to pull this up. I want to show this on the air here. I want to show the actual map of where this is for those that care. This is off of Ditch Road in Carmel, Indiana, just south of 106th Street.
So, if you're on Ditch Road and you're driving south, which is how I get to work you're coming from the north, you're driving south, you cross over 106th Street Dane, there's a roundabout there. Of course. It's on your left. It's on your left. It's a gated neighborhood. It's very large. And it's been built for a few years.
And that is, that is the reality there, buddy. I believe crooked stick
Damian Dunn: is North of 106.
Peter Dunn: Correct. You're, you're, you're right. So it has a crooked stick look to it. Crooked stick is North of 106 and also West of ditch for what it's worth, but there's, there's where it's out. Okay. Let's be [00:56:00] done. I was starting to feel like I don't want it to feel so all right, Dame.
Thank you everyone else. Stay getting money.
